D&D 5E The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D

[Voadam]

Versimilitude for non-magical characters is going to vary based on desired tone and theme and personal taste. Action movie versimilitude is different from gritty realism versimilitude.

In the Avengers movies I was completely onboard with Black Widow and Hawkeye being action movie ultra competent combatants and superspy agents who were non powered humans who could stand alongside Thor and Iron Man doing cool things effectively. In the Black Widow movie when she fell off a roof, fell multiple stories, and hit pavement, went "ow that hurt" and stood up and shook it off that was versimilitude breaking for me even though it is a a context of high action movie competency and in a universe with Doctor Strange and the Hulk. Falling and grappling hook lining to not hit the ground catastrophically was not non-magically action hero versimilitude breaking for me even though it is not realistic.

D&D has varied on what models and tones it goes for with its non-magical characters. In AD&D a high level thief could be modeled on Matthew Broderick in Ladyhawke who never fights and sometimes gets caught but is decent at pickpocketing and sneaking around. A 4e rogue could basically be action movie James Bond their whole career.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Frankly, blind fighting sucks. In every edition (except those where it doesn't exist). It gives you a slight edge if your opponent is also blinded, but that's about it. It hardly meets a criteria sufficient to playing a conceptual blind swordsman.

This drives at my point. The D&D design for martial characters has generally to be to "err on the side of reality", resulting in fundamentally mundane characters.

In what universe is it realistic for a blind person to suffer no penalties in a sword fight? That’s….nuts.

Blind fighting means you can fight without penalty in darkness, even magical darkness. You can fight invisible monsters. You aren’t affected by blindness. It’s awesome. I love that ability.

 

[Maxperson]

That's like saying we should have heavy gravity zones where it's impossible to wear armor or swing weapons because it's narratively useful to have the occasional situation where armed combat is turned off.

These exist. Or rather the reverse/zero gravity areas where it's impossible to fight exist. I've run into them as small areas of them in dungeons like anti-magic zones or via the spell. Try fighting with weapons in a 0 gravity zone. Spellcasters do just fine, though.

I don't mind areas of altered magic, like on other planes, diminished magic, or even wild magic (which can be fun for a little while), but telling a player "no, you can't do jack here" is ridiculous.

I don't mind either anti-magic or zero gravity zones, provided they are small and rare.

 

[Micah Sweet]

...if you need spellcasting to continue to be overpowered, sure.

Maybe let magic not be so overpowered? I dunno, seems like it could work.

Magic should be able to do amazing, fantastic things. Putting a price tag on it is a better solution than telling caster players their powers just aren't as powerful now.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Unfortunately, my group of grog friends broke up when the social keystone of the group passed away. My new group is great, but from a different generation.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[Bill Zebub]

A little late to the party discussing anti-magic zones (and gravity/magnetic zones) but there is a world of difference between “for this adventure you are useless” and “in this encounter you are going to have to figure out how not to be useless.”

 

[Cadence]

In what universe is it realistic for a blind person to suffer no penalties in a sword fight? That’s….nuts.

Blind fighting means you can fight without penalty in darkness, even magical darkness. You can fight invisible monsters. You aren’t affected by blindness. It’s awesome. I love that ability.

Daredevil, and I'm assuming some martial arts films. Feels like it involves something special enough to be essentially unique to get it though.

Pathfinder with a feat chain and high level?

 

[Mort]

In what universe is it realistic for a blind person to suffer no penalties in a sword fight? That’s….nuts.

Well lets see, there's the MCU, the DC Universe, countless ones encompassing classic martial arts movies, I guarantee if you look hard enough you'll find an example in the forgotten realms (that's not classified as "magic" even).

You keep wanting to equate fictional fighters with THIS real world. But we are not in the real world. Most D&D worlds are lands of magic and myth and legend. How is it even a question that in a land of myth and legend a blind man can overcome the disability without resorting to magic?

Ninja'd by @Cadence!

 

[Garthanos]

In 1e there was as part of the description of fireball and lightning both an effect described for physically interrupting the path of the spell, Now if I could only throw my shield in front of it as a reaction. (that would feel pretty cool)

The lightning bolt bounces and the fireball ignites/expands early.

 

[Garthanos]

That feels like part of combat? But yes.

Sure .... hence why I used the word "but"