D&D 5E The Decrease in Desire for Magic in D&D

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Superman is a parody of something. At least, I sure hope he is; 'cause I really don't want anyone to expect me to take him seriously. :)
El is the hebrew word for god (Elohim was the word for gods esp the Canaanite Pantheon) and Ka is the Egyptian word for well an aspect of Soul.
The two guys who originated superman, were jewish (or atleast one), and they knew these things.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I think all of the other Spidermen from alternate universes are knock-offs. They are all, every last one of them, non-name brand versions. Only the original is the name brand. They're just closer to the original than a D&D knock-off would be.
Some more valid than others a spiderman that does not invent his web shooters is missing a core scientist and "renaissance man" element of the archetype. He became a renaissance ideal in a sense by gaining all that physicality. And the stories like to remind us not to forget that mentality and morality.
 



EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
For those players who "don't find [this] particularly satisfying" I have no sympathy whatsoever.

If it's a powerful thing then there should be impediments to its use.
And as I said earlier, in different words:

Players don't like that. Players have repeatedly refused to play that way, as a major and sustained pattern. Designers have refused to make rules that actually enforce the impediments, and what impediments they do use are really annoying and not enriching the game experience at all. Like, there are ways to design game limitations that are fun and interesting. "Your spell fizzles!" is not one of those ways. And, finally, DMs have repeatedly and continuously, across basically the entire run of the game, refused to actually enforce the limits that are supposed to be present.

Yet the complaints continue and the power imbalance that results leaves those who aren't spellcasters frustrated.

Your answer seems to be "screw human psychology and effective solutions. We will design the game that I think should work, and people should just learn to enjoy playing it the right way." But that, to me, sounds like saying "well if people are going to use it wrong, design better people, and leave the game alone."

Why not design a game that actually gives people a reason too WANT to play it as intended? Or one that gives players their fun without making it overpowered and instant-win? It's a hell of a lot easier (though still difficult) to design a good, functional game that gets people to do things as intended, rather than changing human nature.
 


A 4e rogue could basically be action movie James Bond their whole career.
Very true. I don't want that from D&D though. If the chracter feels and plays the same over all the levels, what's the point of levels? I want a low level rogue to be normal plucky thief, a mid level one to be as competent as James Bond, whereas a high level one is a mythic superninja.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Very true. I don't want that from D&D though. If the chracter feels and plays the same over all the levels, what's the point of levels? I want a low level rogue to be normal plucky thief, a mid level one to be as competent as James Bond, whereas a high level one is a mythic superninja.
The point of levels is to be doing James Bond things in newer, more exciting, more exotic places, and to revel in how you are no longer threatened by ordinary Russian mafia thugs after you've been to the Moon and infiltrated the ruins of Atlantis.

You can have "do awesome James Bond things" at every level--getting your class fantasy--while still having growth in scale, significance, and power. And you can display that growth by having the player occasionally face their now (comparatively) weak enemies/easily-overcome dangers and flex against them, and by bringing back threats that used to be Way Too Scary that are now manageable.
 

Voadam

Legend
Very true. I don't want that from D&D though. If the chracter feels and plays the same over all the levels, what's the point of levels? I want a low level rogue to be normal plucky thief, a mid level one to be as competent as James Bond, whereas a high level one is a mythic superninja.
I wanted to do more and bigger James Bond things across the career. James bond messing with Hobgoblin forts. Drow Cities. Lords of the Abyss.

OSR D&D typically offered for me to be a plucky thief who: mechanically fails 80% of the time at what they try to do, fails 50% of the time, fails only about 20% of the time and can now use scrolls.

Biggest disappointment in going from B/X to finally getting BECMI Companion Set was thieves getting nothing new in powers but having their success chances simply rolled back to cover more levels as barely mid competent at their class abilities.
 


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