D&D (2024) Rogue Playtest Discussion

Not having use an option severely makes the subclass a lot more unfun. Especially with the new twf rules, use an object just to draw one more dagger would be incredibly useful.
I'll copy and paste what I said in another thread below in the spoiler. TLDR; as written everyone can draw two Light weapons in the same turn and make two attacks without needing the Dual Wielder feat or the 5e Thief ability anymore.

From reading the Light [Weapon Property] and Equipping Weapons under the Attack [Action] section it looks like the Quick Draw bullet for the Dual Wielder feat does very little. It lets you draw or stow two weapons when you could normally only draw one. But with the new equipping rules you can equip or stow a weapon before or after any attack made with the Attack Action. The Light weapon property says

"When you take the Attack Action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon in one hand, you can make one extra attack as part of the same Action. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon in the other hand, and you don’t add your Ability Modifier to the extra attack’s damage."

Nothing in there says you need to already have a different Light weapon in your other hand to make use of this extra attack. So you could take an Attack action, draw a weapon with the Light property, attack with it, tell the DM your going to make an extra attack, draw another Light weapon in your off hand, and attack with it. Unless I missed something it seems like anyone can draw two weapons in a round as long as they are both Light.

I guess you could still find a use for Quick Draw if you switch between weapons, items, and foci regularly. But that seems like something separate from what dual wielding should be about, which is using two weapons simultaneously in combat. I mostly welcome the changes to two-weapon fighting in the packet but this feat seems pretty bad. Upping one weapon from a d4 or d6 to a d8 and a second feature that doesn't do much isn't worth passing on other feats.
 

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Bill Zebub

“It’s probably Matt Mercer’s fault.”
I just realized that I misread Subtle Strikes and thought it only applied to targets within 5' of you, not just your ally. So I thought it was a huge boost to melee only. Drat.
 


FitzTheRuke

Legend
Thief subclass:
you should really get Expertise in Thieves tools and Sleight of Hand at 3rd level
Expertise only works with skills in this playtest packet. But yeah, looks like Sleight of Hand is now the new "Thievery" Skill and you use it to pick locks. In fact, a Thief with SoH expertise would be rolling 2d20(high)+dex bonus+2x prof bonus to pick locks. (Advantage for using both a tool and a skill). Lock DCs are gonna have to be pretty high if you want to keep a thief out.
 

Horwath

Legend
Expertise only works with skills in this playtest packet. But yeah, looks like Sleight of Hand is now the new "Thievery" Skill and you use it to pick locks. In fact, a Thief with SoH expertise would be rolling 2d20(high)+dex bonus+2x prof bonus to pick locks. (Advantage for using both a tool and a skill). Lock DCs are gonna have to be pretty high if you want to keep a thief out.
advantage only comes in effect into combat when you MUST succeed on 1st try.
Otherwise, it's almost no effect as you always take your time picking locks.
and locks start with DC 20, so it's high from the start.
even with 18 dex at 5th level and expertise: +10 bonus,it's only 55% chance to succeed on 1st try.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
advantage only comes in effect into combat when you MUST succeed on 1st try.
Otherwise, it's almost no effect as you always take your time picking locks.
I don't understand this statement. Maybe I'm just tired. I don't know where any of that is coming from. Heck, the thief can pick locks as a bonus action. How is that "taking your time"?
 

Horwath

Legend
I don't understand this statement. Maybe I'm just tired. I don't know where any of that is coming from. Heck, the thief can pick locks as a bonus action. How is that "taking your time"?
taking your time means that you are not in a hurry and you can afford time lost for failing the check several times.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
taking your time means that you are not in a hurry and you can afford time lost for failing the check several times.
Sure. But what about that means that you don't roll with advantage if you're rolling an ability check with a skill and using tools (a rule since Xanathar's).
 


FitzTheRuke

Legend
He just means: if you can retry as often as you like, you have super advantage...
Oh! I thought I was being a bit thick in my understanding. That makes sense. I thought he meant you didn't get advantage in situations where you can try again, which seemed like a really weird idea to me. Of course, I'm not sure I'd ever make anyone roll a check if they could just keep going and going. I'd just say "it takes you twenty minutes, but you get it done..." or something.
 

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