D&D (2024) Why no new packs since late September?

[Maxperson]

This really depends on how the DM runs skills and languages.

Not really. If the DM runs skills that involve nature, the 5.5e ranger is going to be far superior to the highly limited 2 terrain 2014 ranger since he has all terrains PLUS all the rest of nature. If the DM doesn't run nature challenges, the 5.5e ranger is going to be even farther ahead, because he has the option to get expertise in any skill, so can pick social or other exploration skills like investigation or perception, where the 2014 ranger is limited to the 2 terrains that are not being used.

The change of the 2014 ranger to the current playtest ranger is a nerf and a buff

He loses a small bit in combat, but so what. He's gaining huge amounts out of combat which far more than mitigate the minor downturn in combat damage. And really, he's getting the ability to learn ANY primal spell from ANY school except for evocation, which has the potential to far outweigh that loss of a piddly amount of DPR. He might not be nerfed in combat, either.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why is that everyone turns to DPR to try and assess balance? The game is far more than combat.

Because DPR can be defined and valued by math.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I wonder if they're not getting the feedback they hoped for. At least on this site, even most of the folks who generally liked what we've seen so far for 6e have sent in negative feedback.

I would hope they would start with admitting it is 6e

 

[dave2008]

No such "proof" was given since a PC is more than just combat. I'm not going to allow myself get railroaded into only comparing combat stats when I've been talking about the whole character.

Well there is a reason I put it in quotation marks. Are you willing to breakdown your comparison for us then? It is not something I think is an issue so I haven't done it, but since you do I assume you have done a comparison? I would be interested if I need to change my opinion.

 

[dave2008]

Because WOTC changed it and said this is what the community wants.

That doesn't explain the why, which is what we are really discussing.

 

[mellored]

So new ranger much, MUCH better since skill in nature includes ALL terrains, all plants, all weather, all natural cycles, and animals(a monster type). And then they get expertise in another skill that can include a monster type or two as well as other stuff.

Old ranger gets the bonus on both Intelligence or Wisdom checks.

It's not a nerf in any campaign. If I take nature I get expertise in every terrain out there while you are limited to two. All of nature > two terrains.

I guess I didn't list the rest of the benefits old ranger gets.

While traveling for an hour or more in your favored terrain, you gain the following benefits:

• Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.
• Your group can’t become lost except by magical means.
• Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
• If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
• When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
• While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.

Oh, and I could take a social skill and have expertise in the social pillar as well.

You could have expertise in the social pillar instead. If you take persuasion, you lose nature.

Different =/= more powerful

New bard gets to wait until after an ally FAILS a test before using bardic inspiration as a reaction to help. Old bard has to use it in advance and pray that it's useful within the next 10 minutes.

Old bard has more uses. And more range, since you can use it before the monk runs after the archers.

Easier =/= more powerful.

 

[Minigiant]

Not really. If the DM runs skills that involve nature, the 5.5e ranger is going to be far superior to the highly limited 2 terrain 2014 ranger since he has all terrains PLUS all the rest of nature. If the DM doesn't run nature challenges, the 5.5e ranger is going to be even farther ahead, because he has the option to get expertise in any skill, so can pick social or other exploration skills like investigation or perception, where the 2014 ranger is limited to the 2 terrains that are not being used.

If the DM doesn't call for many Nature check but focuses on language and knowledge, the 2014 ranger is stronger.
And the playtest burns through spells like a madman.
And at actual dungeon delving,the 2014 ranger is far better.

He loses a small bit in combat, but so what. He's gaining huge amounts out of combat which far more than mitigate the minor downturn in combat damage. And really, he's getting the ability to learn ANY primal spell from ANY school except for evocation, which has the potential to far outweigh that loss of a piddly amount of DPR. He might not be nerfed in combat, either.

Again depends on DM and campaign.

When I actually playtested the ranger in a dungeon, it ran out of spells so fast.

You know what concentrationless Hunter's Mark does. Encourages players to cast it all the time and cast other spells on top of it.

 

[Minigiant]

That doesn't explain the why, which is what we are really discussing.

They said why. They wanted players to make PC combinations they desired.

The designers though a 14 int halfling wizard was fine. The community didn't . So they made the +2/+1 float.

The designers though that cultural weapons doing nothing for warrior type classes was fine. The community didn't. So they let you trade out racial weapons and armor for tools.

 

[tetrasodium]

I don't have access to level up.

Actually... you do

 

[Maxperson]

Old ranger gets the bonus on both Intelligence or Wisdom checks.

I guess I didn't list the rest of the benefits old ranger gets.

While traveling for an hour or more in your favored terrain, you gain the following benefits:

• Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s travel.
• Your group can’t become lost except by magical means.
• Even when you are engaged in another activity while traveling (such as foraging, navigating, or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
• If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
• When you forage, you find twice as much food as you normally would.
• While tracking other creatures, you also learn their exact number, their sizes, and how long ago they passed through the area.

I'll still take all of nature for the win. You go ahead and limit yourself to two terrains out of eight. I get all 8. And then I get expertise in something else.

You could have expertise in the social pillar instead. If you take persuasion, you lose nature.

No I don't.

"You gain Expertise in two of your Skill Proficiencies of your choice."

Different =/= more powerful

Greater = more powerful.

Speed isn't generally in issue. Getting lost is even less of an issue. The engaging in other activities is more fluff than anything else. You are rarely going to be engaged in one of those when an attack happens and will generally have alert comrades when you do engage in them. Traveling alone is going to be rare unless the party sends you ahead to scout(and you better pray nothing perceptive eats you). Foraging for food is highly limited since clerics can just make it and otherwise parties almost always carry rations with them. Tracking is useful, but a survival check can tell you all of that stuff and the 5.5e ranger can have expertise there as well and get far more out of survival than just tracking.

All in all, having nature expertise is going to be much better than two terrains with 5 corner case abilities and tracking which the 5.5 ranger can do better by selecting survival as his second skill.

Old bard has more uses. And more range, since you can use it before the monk runs after the archers.

Big deal. He has a marginal number of extra uses which is far more than mitigated by the sheer versatility the new bard has over the old bard. The corner case scenario of a monk running after archers doesn't change that.

Easier =/= more powerful.

MUCH better = more powerful.