I did respond lol. Check the massive edit. I specifically said "So you can't complain" and yet here you are - complaining!
(I'm not really outraged, you probably just missed the edit!)
Yep, totally missed it! Thanks for taking the time and responding.
1) Speed - you say another issue, I say not. Being able to move faster than normal is a utility ability and we agree should be automatic, so a Wizard shouldn't have to roll for
longstrider-- yet it is otherwise an "automatic" thing.
2) Dice bonuses - so another no roll, which is fine.
3) Ok, so here they should add rolling.
4) Again, we disagree on what a "utility ability" is. Being able to gain more spell slots to allow Sorcerers to cast more spells gives them more utility.
5) Vision - how you necessarily making a roll? A roll only comes into play if the DM calls for a Wisdom (Perception) check or something.
Devil's sight allows you to see in darkness normally, so you won't even have disadvantage on that check if called for (unlike darkvision).
I'm suggesting non-combat spells that don't currently involve checks at all, that just give a fiat effect, should involve checks
Actually, it sounds more like you are suggesting any feature which gives a fiat effect should involve a check (such as the Natural Explorer feature).
It seems like you're fixated on this idea that I want "spellcasting checks", but I dismissed that several posts ago.
Not at all. I am fixated on this idea: why should Wizards have to roll a spellcasting check a spell that grants them a "feature" when other classes have their features automatically, numerous times if not at-will?
Do we really want to have a system where
some spells require an "effect check" before working when others don't?
Returning to your first example:
You want to use Transmute Rock's Rock-to-Mud function to punch a hole through a wall? Ok, roll. Make a check. Roll the dice. Like everyone else has to!
Why? A martial with a hammer can "attack and damage" the wall until they punch a hole through it. The wall doesn't fight back, so it will happen eventually. Sure, the martial is "rolling to hit and for damage", but the result is inevitable. All the spell does is make it happen
faster, at the expense of a spell slot--where the martial is spending the time.
I think making a roll
in combat (or at least during an "encounter") might be ok, due to the stress of the situation, but otherwise you are just imposing a risk of failure on a Wizard's "class features" where other classes don't have one and punishing the class needlessly.
And returning to the rest of it:
The same for pretty much every spell - if everyone else has to make a check to use their abilities, you should too! Let these spells fail! Let them have consequences! Kill the fiat "I win" factor. I say this as someone who more or less exclusively plays full casters too (because all the classes I like best - well except Paladins - are designed that way), so it's not from some outsider animus towards them.
From your discussions it really isn't "pretty much every spell" is it?
It often comes down to a trade-off: automatic success comes with limited use. Consider
spider climb (definitely a utility spell) and a Rogue (Thief). With Second-Story Work, the Thief gains a climb speed equal to their walking speed, just like
spider climb. However, with the spell, no Strength (Athletics) check is required, but the duration is "limited" (IMO an hour is much too long!), uses a spell slot, and requires concentration. While the Thief has to roll to climb (maybe), what failure constitutes is then up to the DM.
Even if you
make the Wizard roll to climb (since we know the spell is successfully cast), if the DC is the same as the Thief how is that magical? Should the spell be rewritten to just give you a climb speed equal to your walking speed?
