WotC WotC needs an Elon Musk

[Micah Sweet]

RPGs, however, invite you to make the world your own, or to make your own world entirely. It's different than movie or comic book or novel series. You watch or read those things, but you don't really interact with it unless you're making fan content like fic.

Whereas if I want to start running or even playing a game in the Realms, I kind of have to know at least a little bit about what's going there to be able to have my adventure or character properly fit in.

What about the decades-long history of licensed games set in those universes? Do they not count?

 

[Remathilis]

I think it's more, there's a time and a place for every comment. Saying "the books 5e puts out suck and I don't want to buy them" doesn't add anything to most conversations and is mostly just serves to be a downer and make people defensive.

Saying "I think that instead of doing X, 5e should have done A, B, or C" and then fleshing out what you mean by that, does add to the conversations. Like (for Ravenloft again), instead of saying "I hate that they have these new domains that use the names of the old domains," say "here's how I would have had the story progress for Dementlieu."

If there is one thing I've learned on the internet, it's that a positive contribution is taxing and grievances are cheap. It is stupidly easy to go into a fandom and state how terrible things are, the leadership is out of touch, and how you feel you've been "fired" as a fan while the regime chases people who don't think like you do.

I've seen it in every fandom I've been privy to discussion on from Star Wars to video games to RPGs to comics to horror movies. There are a lot of people who can't handle the fact they are no longer the target audience, and that they either find the off ramp and enjoy what they have OR adapt to the next iteration. Because after the White Album, the Beatles aren't making another "A Hard Days Night" sounding album again.

 

[Remathilis]

Get back to me when the MCU contradicts existing in a major way.

How did Mysterio know he was in the 616 Universe?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Except that the MCU is currently buckling and straining under the weight of their canon. I know many people who were very off-put by some of the recent movies because those movies needed the TV mini-series to be understood, but then rewrote the TV mini-series.

The MCU did great for about 10 years. WoTC wants DnD to last longer than that, and canon seems to be very detrimental to that.



Having not seen a single positive thing said about the recent Star Wars movies, and the only good things being the TV shows that largely are ignoring the canon plots? I'm not sure they would be wrong.

It interesting you mention 10 years. I think a decade is the limit of canon before it becomes a problem.

 

[Faolyn]

What about the decades-long history of licensed games set in those universes? Do they not count?

No. Because the game is still interactive and changes from table to table.

Speaking of Ravenloft, imagine the Grand Conjunction, which was written out in a series of 6 adventures. If I don't run those adventures (I didn't) or the PCs went in a completely different direction than the adventure assumes (e.g., in my CoS game, one ex-player's antics led to the complete destruction of Vallaki), then your game automatically breaks the setting's canon. But at the same time, my game is also canon, but it doesn't match with the game company's canon, so there's now two canons, both of which are equally true. (Or rather, there are hundreds or thousands of canons, one for every time those six adventures were run, since every table is different.)

Whereas, in a Star Wars or MCU TV show or movie, no matter how many times you shout at the screen "no, don't do that thing!" the character is going to do that thing and the show or movie will always end the same way. There's no way to make it canonically differently, unless you happen to be the actual director and re-release a new version of it where it's different in some way.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Thing is I don't think they are abandoning World Building. We got a fair amount of it in several 5e books.

Not a type of world building that satisfies the like of @Micah Sweet, where a deeper and developing lore is desired.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

It's contradicted existing Marvel in huge ways from day one lol dude.

Not in a way that has caused a huge storm in the fandom (or at least a large enough of a storm to come to my notice). The cracks are showing a lot of people did not like the treatment of Wanda in the last Dr Strange movie or that of Thor in the last Thor outing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not in a way that has caused a huge storm in the fandom (or at least a large enough of a storm to come to my notice). The cracks are showing a lot of people did not like the treatment of Wanda in the last Dr Strange movie or that of Thor in the last Thor outing.

The MCU is an adaptation that in no way invalidates 70+ years of comics history. That, to me, is the difference.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

The MCU is an adaptation that in no way invalidates 70+ years of comics history. That, to me, is the difference.

Not a comic fan as such ( and we have established not one that care about lore overmuch) but have not the comics already invalidated their past or is that DC only?
I was not really referring to the comic continuity. The MCU is in the phase where the weight of lore is beginning to become a barrier to new comers.
Aside from that the lore density is approaching the point where someone will break continuity in a controversial way.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Not in a way that has caused a huge storm in the fandom (or at least a large enough of a storm to come to my notice). The cracks are showing a lot of people did not like the treatment of Wanda in the last Dr Strange movie or that of Thor in the last Thor outing.

The people who didn't like that aren't comics fans.

The comics fans were fine with it, because that's just "Oh Wanda, what are you like!". Comics Wanda has been way worse than that.

The MCU-only people didn't like because they still think of Wanda as the relative innocent girl from Age of Ultron and so on, whereas all the old Marvel hands were like "Uh oh it's Scarlet Witch, someone about to have a very bad day".

The Thor movie was just a bad movie, and again, it was MCU-only people who were the primary haters.