D&D 5E The Gloves Are Off?

[MGibster]

I'm not a fan of this, as it establishes that protective equipment and preventive measures mean nothing.

I'm certainly not one to quibble with a player over whether or not their character wears gloves. If they tell me their character wears gloves, then they wear gloves. And like you, I also don't want to establish precedence that protective equipment or measures mean nothing. Players should be rewarded for clever thinking. But I also don't want to encourage players to think of excuses for why they should get an advantage after they've already committed to an action, nor do I want to encourage them to spend an inordinate amount of time overthinking how they can mitigate every potential risk for mundane activities like opening doors, chests, etc., etc. If they have some reason to think a chest is trapped, great, try to figure something out, but that gets tedious when they start doing that to every chest.

Or do I get to have them roll for disadvantage when picking locks because they're wearing bulky gloves?

 

[Incenjucar]

Overall, my assumption is that anything like contact poison is formulated to bypass any equipment that doesn't specifically call out exceptions. Otherwise you have an endless series of corner cases that must be addressed, like natural armor, barkskin, and so on.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I'm certainly not one to quibble with a player over whether or not their character wears gloves. If they tell me their character wears gloves, then they wear gloves. And like you, I also don't want to establish precedence that protective equipment or measures mean nothing. Players should be rewarded for clever thinking. But I also don't want to encourage players to think of excuses for why they should get an advantage after they've already committed to an action, nor do I want to encourage them to spend an inordinate amount of time overthinking how they can mitigate every potential risk for mundane activities like opening doors, chests, etc., etc. If they have some reason to think a chest is trapped, great, try to figure something out, but that gets tedious when they start doing that to every chest.

Or do I get to have them roll for disadvantage when picking locks because they're wearing bulky gloves?

Also a very big concern of mine. I've had to basically untrain a lot of players in my college days from being afraid to touch or interact with anything.

I've actually been wracking my brain for an interesting way to make use of contact poison that doesn't train the players to be paranotic and that doesn't invite a lot of complicated questions about what the owner does when they need to use their murder room covered in contact poison.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I find it interesting that @iserith asked a question about game (or DMing) philosophy, and so many people went straight to the rule books.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

My general view as a GM is to assume that the characters are much better at their job than the players are at emulating that job through a game. Because of thiw I give the characters a lot of benefit of the doubt when the players do something with the character the character really shouldn't be doing.

So in the gloves and poison example....assuming the poisoned character was a professional adventurer...I also assume they know not to touch random dangerous things (like a chest on a dungeon which is a common source of deadly traps) without standard adventurer precautions taken beforehand.

I even give every PC a "standard adventurers pack" which deliberately contains "everything am adventurer might have". Need a wedge for a door? It's in there. A few extra rations to bribe a goatman? Also in there. How about ball bearings or a small hand drill? Yup!

This lets my players be creative in problem solving in the moment and not just penalized because they didn't think to grab some glue to attach fake beards made of wool three adventures prior to knowing they needed fake beards.

I've been running this way since the 90s and ive never once had a player take advantage of my style. If they did that would indicate a bad player, not a bad system.

 

[iserith]

I find it interesting that @iserith asked a question about game (or DMing) philosophy, and so many people went straight to the rule books.

To be fair, I was thinking of what was in the rules when I imagined the scenario. What happened was I was reading an old Dungeon Magazine adventure and it had a hatbox secured closed with string. The string was soaked in contact poison. I was thinking about how that could play out at the table under D&D 5e rules, so I looked up gloves and whatnot and found that they just weren't mentioned outside of magical ones. But at the same time, I think it would be reasonable for a player to imagine their character wears gloves. So at the end of the day it is a question of DMing philosophy, but rules can certainly be something to consider here.

 

[Celebrim]

My general view as a GM is to assume that the characters are much better at their job than the players are at emulating that job through a game. Because of this I give the characters a lot of benefit of the doubt when the players do something with the character the character really shouldn't be doing.

So in the gloves and poison example....assuming the poisoned character was a professional adventurer...I also assume they know not to touch random dangerous things (like a chest on a dungeon which is a common source of deadly traps) without standard adventurer precautions taken beforehand.

While there are merits to this approach, please recognize this approach as a species of railroading that violates player agency. If you as a DM start deciding what characters would do based on what you think is the right thing to do, then at some point if you do that often enough you are playing the character and not the player.

Also note that it is not a given that touching an object with or without a glove on is the right thing to do. For every contact poison, you'll have another situation where instructions have been subtly hammered in braille into the doorknob explaining how to bypass the trap by turning the doorknob clockwise twice before turning it counterclockwise once. The dimples might be readily apparent if touched with bare hands, but imperceptible if touch with a gloved one. As such, how are you going to assume in the general case what the right precautions an adventure ought to take are? And moreover, if you start assuming in the general case what the adventure did, why are you bothering to roll fortunes or receive propositions from the player, since presumably there almost always exists some procedure that would collect the clue or avoid the trap if properly followed - and it will not be difficult for you as the DM to imagine it given that you have all the knowledge.

I even give every PC a "standard adventurers pack" which deliberately contains "everything am adventurer might have". Need a wedge for a door? It's in there. A few extra rations to bribe a goatman? Also in there. How about ball bearings or a small hand drill? Yup!

This lets my players be creative in problem solving in the moment and not just penalized because they didn't think to grab some glue to attach fake beards made of wool three adventures prior to knowing they needed fake beards.

There is nothing wrong with just have a "pack" of some standard weight that the PCs have and either assuming any common object of low value might be found in there or else that players have a percentage chance of having the right little thing at the right time. It certainly has its advantages and it's a perfectly valid way to play. But if I was going to provide such a pack, I'd be even more of a stickler about insisting that PC's describe the tool or tools that they are employing beforehand.

If they did that would indicate a bad player, not a bad system.

Well, yes. My point exactly.

 

[Lanefan]

My general view as a GM is to assume that the characters are much better at their job than the players are at emulating that job through a game. Because of thiw I give the characters a lot of benefit of the doubt when the players do something with the character the character really shouldn't be doing.

So in the gloves and poison example....assuming the poisoned character was a professional adventurer...I also assume they know not to touch random dangerous things (like a chest on a dungeon which is a common source of deadly traps) without standard adventurer precautions taken beforehand.

For me, such SOPs only become established after they've gone through doing it the long way a few times and set a pattern. And if the character's Wisdom score is low enough, I never assume anything.

I even give every PC a "standard adventurers pack" which deliberately contains "everything am adventurer might have". Need a wedge for a door? It's in there. A few extra rations to bribe a goatman? Also in there. How about ball bearings or a small hand drill? Yup!

This lets my players be creative in problem solving in the moment and not just penalized because they didn't think to grab some glue to attach fake beards made of wool three adventures prior to knowing they needed fake beards.

IMO it also takes away the creativity and forethought needed in order to properly outfit the characters to begin with; and further takes away the creativity needed to jury-rig something on the spur of the moment using whatever happens to be on hand e.g. using the warrior's backup dagger to jam the door shut instead of a wedge.

I mean, small hand drill? Glue for fake beards? That's getting into pretty specialized stuff that very few would think of ahead of time.

And how much does all this gear weigh, and how bulky is it to carry around?

I've been running this way since the 90s and ive never once had a player take advantage of my style. If they did that would indicate a bad player, not a bad system.

Maybe - though to me it would simply indicate a player who is doing what a player should: advocating for their character by pushing against the rules envelope.

 

[Lanefan]

There is nothing wrong with just have a "pack" of some standard weight that the PCs have and either assuming any common object of low value might be found in there or else that players have a percentage chance of having the right little thing at the right time. It certainly has its advantages and it's a perfectly valid way to play. But if I was going to provide such a pack, I'd be even more of a stickler about insisting that PC's describe the tool or tools that they are employing beforehand.

I'd be a stickler about listing exactly what's in that "pack" so as to specifically avoid the Schroedinger's toolbox effect; even more so if some of what's in there is consumable.

The pack idea is useful in one way, though: it can speed up the process of equipping a new character.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I on the other hand specifically created an item that works like Schrodinger's Toolbox, because fi the rogue can't be Batman, there's no reason to have a roleplaying game at all.

Not 5e but:

Spoiler

Utility Belt

This wide leather belt is covered with loops, pouches, compartments and other places to store or attach small items. Despite its size, it feels as if it weighs nothing when worn.



Base: Once per encounter, you may pull the right tool for any task from the belt, adding 1d6 + Superiority bonus to a single skill roll.



You may store any item weighting less than one pound in the belt's many compartments. That item's weight does not count toward your encumbrance. A creature must be under the effects of detect magic or a similar spell to find items in the belt with Insight.



Superiority +1: Once per encounter, you may produce from the belt up to 10 squares worth of rope, a full canteen, enough rations to feed 1 Medium creature, 1 flask of oil, a sack, a smoke bomb, or a dagger from the belt. These items are produced by the magic of the belt and do not exist before being produced.



The produced items are clearly magical constructs and cannot be sold. They mysteriously disappear after a short rest.



Superiority +3: Once per encounter, you may produce any item weighting less then 5 pounds and costing less and 100gp from the belt. These items are produced by the magic of the belt and do not exist before being produced.



The produced items are clearly magical constructs and cannot be sold. They mysteriously disappear after a short rest.