Just discovered Castles and Crusades

[Andvari]

Conundrum!

You think it's a tarrasque?

That or a sea serpent.

 

[ilgatto]

That or a sea serpent.

A sea serpent? That would be the one the water? So what's the beast in the background?

 

[Andvari]

A sea serpent? That would be the one the water? So what's the beast in the background?

The other one looks like the tarrasque for sure. It also has an entry in the book.

 

[Retreater]

I'm not a fan of the fantasy racism (species-ism?) in the players handbook (play a half-orc if you want to play a social outcast who is reviled by all the NPCs - with the unfortunate implication that they deserve to be treated like that, given their "unpleasant demeanour" and "unsavoury" personalities and the way they "typically care for themselves and themselves alone") but I assume nobody actually plays the game like that?

We ran into the same issue in Forbidden Lands and just ignored it.

 

[Jahydin]

I'm not a fan of the fantasy racism (species-ism?) in the players handbook (play a half-orc if you want to play a social outcast who is reviled by all the NPCs - with the unfortunate implication that they deserve to be treated like that, given their "unpleasant demeanour" and "unsavoury" personalities and the way they "typically care for themselves and themselves alone") but I assume nobody actually plays the game like that?

I do.

My settings tend to be Middle-Earth like, so imagining a half-orc just going about his day in a human settlement without causing a commotion seems unlikely. But if you're choosing to play a half-orc, chances are that's part of the appeal. Lots of interesting choices and roleplay opportunities for those that want to play "the outcast". Knowing most of the hate comes from fear would make a few of my players chuckle as they purposefully intimidated the weak humans, like the main antagonist in Highlander. Conversely, maybe they play a character that pities the humans' ignorance and takes the "high-road" being as well behaved as possible and in time earning the trust and loyalty of many.

 

[Willie the Duck]

It's an interesting system, and some of the "A" series adventures look really good. I'd love to run them at some point.

I'm not a fan of the fantasy racism (species-ism?) in the players handbook (play a half-orc if you want to play a social outcast who is reviled by all the NPCs - with the unfortunate implication that they deserve to be treated like that, given their "unpleasant demeanour" and "unsavoury" personalities and the way they "typically care for themselves and themselves alone") but I assume nobody actually plays the game like that?

We ran into the same issue in Forbidden Lands and just ignored it.

Symbaroum as well. Or, for that matter, D&D for much/most* of its run. Look, there's no one answer and nothing works well for everyone. Many games include prejudice in their game worlds (/implied settings) and I'm sure I've seen at least one where it was done well*. Many of them also include experiencing prejudice as a character option and that's theoretically the point/they're making it an option because someone might want to try roleplaying that experience (again, I've seen one or maybe two that have done it well). I don't really think that was the logic behind their inclusion in AD&D. There I think there were half-orcs because at the time orcs were unambiguously 'Bad Guys(tm)' and sometimes it's fun to play bad guys/quasi-bad guys** and Tolkien conveniently had half-orcs (so that was easy). What that means for AD&D (or basic-classic D&D, but with half-orcs)-inspired OSR games, I don't know. If they do it well, good for them. When I see it, I'll be sure to call it out with praise. In the meantime, if the emphasis is on "this is a role-play opportunity," I look past it. If it is "selfish, brutish, unpleasant half-breeds reinforce the hatred they receive," then I am a lot less likely to give things a pass.
*depending on your reading of 3e, and even early 5e.
**definitely not the ones that try to justify it with "unpleasant demeanor"
***despite you also sometimes allying with or hiring them, if the reaction table rolls right.
****same way that Vader or Boba Fett (or at least Han) might be more appealing than Luke, and so on.

 

[amethal]

I do.

My settings tend to be Middle-Earth like, so imagining a half-orc just going about his day in a human settlement without causing a commotion seems unlikely. But if you're choosing to play a half-orc, chances are that's part of the appeal. Lots of interesting choices and roleplay opportunities for those that want to play "the outcast". Knowing most of the hate comes from fear would make a few of my players chuckle as they purposefully intimidated the weak humans, like the main antagonist in Highlander. Conversely, maybe they play a character that pities the humans' ignorance and takes the "high-road" being as well behaved as possible and in time earning the trust and loyalty of many.

I guess that would be the appeal, although playing a victim who sometimes gets to be a bully is not why I play RPGs.

The book makes it seem like earning the trust and loyalty of anyone outside the immediate party of adventurers is pretty much impossible. There is a reference to half-orcs sometimes forming an "elite warrior caste" but otherwise it seems like you can't even reach the ludicrously low bar of "you're not like the other half-orcs".

And given that "A human's enemies and friends are determined more by expediency and mutual benefit rather than any innate prejudice" but apparently none of the humans like any of the half-orcs, then presumably half-orcs deserve the treatment they get.

And it's not just in human settlements - nobody (apart from some half-elves) likes half-orcs, including other half-orcs. It's strongly implied that dwarves would refuse to adventure with half-orcs (and would also be wary about adventuring with elves; given we only have 7 player character races to choose from that seems like a strange decision from a design perspective - even in Tolkien I think it was only the Sindar the dwarves didn't like, due to their shared history; they had no quarrel with the Noldor and didn't think the elven race as a whole was "disloyal and untrustworthy".)

And playing the Kurgan is not really an option when you are 1st level. I'd also argue that the Kurgan doesn't have a -2 racial penalty to Charisma (Clancy Brown is awesome).

 

[hedgeknight]

Years ago, I ran a one-shot adventure for national gaming day (some time in June I think it was), and at that time C&C was promoting their latest edition heavily and offering a free "starter kit" to anyone who wanted to run a game. I signed up and they sent enough player's guides for all the players, along with a castle keeper's guide for myself, and some giveaways for the session. Pretty cool stuff and I've been a fan of their system since.
I will say, I feel the pain of others who have posted in this thread about not finding players who want to play C&C. In my area, it's a 5th edition glut.

 

[Retreater]

I will say, I feel the pain of others who have posted in this thread about not finding players who want to play C&C. In my area, it's a 5th edition glut.

I'm fortunate to have a wife and a teenager who are down to try new things.
Don't know if I want to spring C&C on them. Now that I'm around two decades past C&C's release, there are just so many similar games out there. I have OSE, OSRIC, Swords & Wizardry, Basic Fantasy, & the actual older versions of D&D and AD&D.
If I want to do something with a different feel I have Shadow of the Demon Lord, WFRP, Fantasy Age, DCC, Savage Worlds, PF2, D&D 4E, Mork Borg, & Forbidden Lands. This isn't even touching other genres: horror, sci-fi, etc.
There's just so much to play and run.

 

[CleverNickName]

I played a couple of C&C games back in the day, when my regular gaming group was shopping around for a new game system. I thought it was a well-designed, streamlined system that reminded me of the old BECM/AD&D days.