Don't Give Ground

[Velderan]

At what point is the fight over? We want everything and give them nothing. Take everything back and more, make them squirm and pay to the point of bankruptcy and spin off WotC. Got it. But, can't they just make a 6e and take their ball and go home like 4e but worse. Then 90% of the players will just follow them to 6e. Then what do we have? Careful what we ask for.

Will they? At the risk of edition warring, did 90% of the players follow to 4e or did a large enough chunk splinter off to PF1e that WotC eventually threw in the towel on 4e and we got 5e as a result?

Those who don't learn from history something something.

 

[Vaalingrade]

WotC eventually threw in the towel on 4e and we got 5e as a result?

Those who don't learn from history something something.

Sure, there were some negatives, but even though we got 5e instead of 4e, 5e had an OGL SRD.

Frankly, I'm fine if 5.5 is under a GSL or whatever and not letting anyone else participate with it as long as they aren't putting the rest of the industry under threat.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Will they? At the risk of edition warring, did 90% of the players follow to 4e or did a large enough chunk splinter off to PF1e that WotC eventually threw in the towel on 4e and we got 5e as a result?

Those who don't learn from history something something.

not wanting the edition war either (and I am totally a 4e guy) but I can't believe that it was close to 90/10...in my mind it was closer to 70/30 but really more like 65/25 with the other 10 being old editions and just leaving D&D...

 

[Clint_L]

Folks who are blaming licensing for 4e's struggles are really forgetting the wider reaction to 4e as a version of D&D. Again, trying to skirt the editions wars issue, but the main issue there was that PF stayed a lot closer to 3e (it basically was 3e), which made it easier for some groups to do that.

 

[Scars Unseen]

At what point is the fight over? We want everything and give them nothing. Take everything back and more, make them squirm and pay to the point of bankruptcy and spin off WotC. Got it. But, can't they just make a 6e and take their ball and go home like 4e but worse. Then 90% of the players will just follow them to 6e. Then what do we have? Careful what we ask for.

I've said from the start of this debacle, that's perfectly fine. At that point, they're just competing in the market. There's no requirement that they continue creating SRDs compatible with the OGL, so if they see it as beneficial not to do so, more power to them. The problem is that they're trying to burn down the community they helped build as they sail off to plunder new lands. That's what I want to prevent.

They don't have to continue to operate under same arrangement with new editions if they don't want to, but if they try to renege on the promise made when they bought the game, I'm prepared to give D&D a viking funeral.

 

[Burt Baccara]

Folks who are blaming licensing for 4e's struggles are really forgetting the wider reaction to 4e as a version of D&D. Again, trying to skirt the editions wars issue, but the main issue there was that PF stayed a lot closer to 3e (it basically was 3e), which made it easier for some groups to do that.

I like Ryan Dancey's take on 4e, it was the world largest fantasy heartbreaker.

 

[The Stray]

I'm fine with the detente being "We keep the status quo of the 1.0a remaining intact, they make their walled garden around 6E," since that is what I assumed they were going to do already. The thing I'm pissed at is trying to shut down the 1.0a to funnel people into their walled garden, instead of them trying to make the walled garden so awesome that people want to go their of their own accord. They don't get to take from the Commons just because it's inconvenient for their microtransaction hellscape plans.

 

[Haplo781]

I like Ryan Dancey's take on 4e, it was the world largest fantasy heartbreaker.

A heartbreaker, by definition, is "D&D with a few changes."

4e was far too different to qualify. And I say that as a megafan of 4e.

All due respect to Mr. Dancey, but calling it a "fantasy heartbreaker" really undersells the ambition of the game and is a huge disservice to the people who poured countless hours into the design and development of 4e.

 

[mellored]

Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I like Ryan Dancey's take on 4e, it was the world largest fantasy heartbreaker.

by that logic would not pathfinder be the heartbreaker... and 4e be the one with the name?