Don't Give Ground

[GMforPowergamers]

A heartbreaker, by definition, is "D&D with a few changes."

4e was very much a ground floor rewrite... it was take all the concepts of D&D all the feel and make the mechanics work in a whole new balanced way. I LOVED IT, and I totally see it as D&D, but it (like 3.0 before it) totally changed the game.

remember how different 3e was from 2e too

 

[Haplo781]

by that logic would not pathfinder be the heartbreaker... and 4e be the one with the name?

Exactly.

 

[The Stray]

A heartbreaker, by definition, is "D&D with a few changes."

4e was far too different to qualify. And I say that as a megafan of 4e.

All due respect to Mr. Dancey, but calling it a "fantasy heartbreaker" is a huge disservice to the people who poured countless hours into the design and development of 4e.

I think it's a perfect analogy. I saw a different stream he was in which touched on this more. 4e was the game designers trying to fix all the flaws they saw in the game. Which is why it was so different. But people didn't want different. They wanted "what we have, but cleaner." Which is what Pathfinder provided. Pathfinder, for those people, became the D&D they wanted.

Which left 4e in the lurch. It WAS a fantasy heartbreaker, even though it was the official brand, because it changed too much at once.

 

[raniE]

At what point is the fight over? We want everything and give them nothing. Take everything back and more, make them squirm and pay to the point of bankruptcy and spin off WotC. Got it. But, can't they just make a 6e and take their ball and go home like 4e but worse. Then 90% of the players will just follow them to 6e. Then what do we have? Careful what we ask for.

Then I have everything I wanted. I don’t care if they make a new edition that sucks or is less open. They can do that. I care about the OGL and everything that is connected to and built on it. It’s 23 years of work. I also highly doubt 90% of players would follow them to a new edition. The fad will end, the number of people playing D&D will shrink. A new edition, especially one that isn’t backwards compatible, will make people quit, like it always has.

 

[Umbran]

Folks, this thread isn't about 4e. Re-re-re-re-re-umpteeen-re-litigating 4e isn't going to be constructive.

 

[aco175]

Then I have everything I wanted. I don’t care if they make a new edition that sucks or is less open. They can do that. I care about the OGL and everything that is connected to and built on it. It’s 23 years of work. I also highly doubt 90% of players would follow them to a new edition. The fad will end, the number of people playing D&D will shrink. A new edition, especially one that isn’t backwards compatible, will make people quit, like it always has.

They could also make a new edition that is great and has everything you always wanted. They could actually make an online platform that is great and works for everyone. They could give me plastic houses and jetpacks we all were told were coming as well. Are people not going to play it if it is that cool?

I gather a lot of people here will still say no, never, where is my pitchfork. I also think that a lot of people will convert.

Of course, we will be back to the thread of the designers and if they look at the playtest feedback or have their blinders on.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I read the first sentence and I disaree.

*edit: actually first paragraph. 4 sentences. All short.

 

[Haplo781]

They could also make a new edition that is great and has everything you always wanted. They could actually make an online platform that is great and works for everyone. They could give me plastic houses and jetpacks we all were told were coming as well. Are people not going to play it if it is that cool?

I gather a lot of people here will still say no, never, where is my pitchfork. I also think that a lot of people will convert.

Of course, we will be back to the thread of the designers and if they look at the playtest feedback or have their blinders on.

If they did all that without breaking our trust? Sure. I was (and still am) a huge fan of 4e after all.

But they already broke our trust, so...

 

[Burt Baccara]

by that logic would not pathfinder be the heartbreaker... and 4e be the one with the name?

Is it a heartbreaker if people actually buy and play the product? Likely not, based on Ryan's definition.

You would have to ask Ryan for more clarification.

 

[Haplo781]

Is it a heartbreaker if people actually buy and play the product? Likely not, based on Ryan's definition.

You would have to ask Ryan for more clarification.

Maybe spin this into a new thread given the redtext above.