It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[Faolyn]

Sorry, you've completely lost me.

Really? I thought it was quite obvious.

You don't get a free pass for knowingly engaging in activities that would bring harm to others just because you were stopped before you could do actually do it.

Unless you're trying to say that WotC is so completely ignorant and naive that they couldn't foresee the results that their actions would have on other gaming companies and on VTTs?

 

[Maxperson]

I cannot believe that they haven't expelled you from California.

Don't you get tired of saying, Hold the avocado?

My wife still eyes me sideways for not liking it. As for hold the avocado, I never say that because I want to continue breathing. Instead I ask for it on the side and my wife takes it. My wisdom is higher than 6!

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Really? I thought it was quite obvious.

You don't get a free pass for knowingly engaging in activities that would bring harm to others just because you were stopped before you could do actually do it.

Wow, I hope you never watch The Good Place. Because you've been attempting murder and murdering all over the place.

Good luck with your "obvious" stuff, by the way.

 

[Faolyn]

Wow, I hope you never watch The Good Place. Because you've been attempting murder and murdering all over the place.

Good luck with your "obvious" stuff, by the way.

Really? I have? Care to point out how, exactly?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Really? I have? Care to point out how, exactly?

I wouldn't want the Book of Dougs to shake you out of your righteous assertions!

Carry on with your moral certainties. You have truly shown us that not only is a corporation a person to whom moral malice can be attributed, but that inchoate crimes are exactly the same as a contractual dispute. Because reasons.

I think we're good.

 

[Umbran]

What I see happen when parents reward kids for bad behaviors that are only partially fixed, is that the kids just continue to engage in those behaviors or even step them up in order to get the reward. I see similar behaviors in adult humans.

On the other hand, disengagement doesn't improve behavior either. There are only so many levers we have.

There's also the issue of making perfect the enemy of good. What's the important bit - that the kid (not that WotC is a kid, but that's how we are phrasing this) did exactly what the parent wanted, or that the kid largely did what was desired, or did something good enough?

At some point we have to weigh whether we want to encourage corporate bad behavior with a reward when they only partially fix something, or whether we withhold that reward until fully fixed to encourage THAT behavior. That's a personal decision. Some here are rewarding the former, and some are waiting for the latter before giving the reward.

So, there's going to be an issue here, in that "we" are not a united front, at all. We may have all been aligned on how the immediate cancellation of v1.0a was bad, for example. But beyond that, we have different goals and desired outcomes.

 

[Maxperson]

On the other hand, disengagement doesn't improve behavior either. There are only so many levers we have.

There's also the issue of making perfect the enemy of good. What's the important bit - that the kid (not that WotC is a kid, but that's how we are phrasing this) did exactly what the parent wanted, or that the kid largely did what was desired, or did something good enough?

Sure. That's why my position is that I will buy(not disengaging) stuff from WotC if it's quality(I don't view some of their recent releases as quality), but I won't be forgiving them just yet and patting them on the back, either. I want to see what they do with the release of 5.5 before I go any further in that direction.

So, there's going to be an issue here, in that "we" are not a united front, at all. We may have all been aligned on how the immediate cancellation of v1.0a was bad, for example. But beyond that, we have different goals and desired outcomes.

I agree, which is why I said we(the gamers upset at what happened) have to make a personal decision(because we are not united) about how to move forward.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Sure. That's why my position is that I will buy(not disengaging) stuff from WotC if it's quality(I don't view some of their recent releases as quality), but I won't be forgiving them just yet and patting them on the back, either. I want to see what they do with the release of 5.5 before I go any further in that direction.

I'm reasonably certain that 5.5 is going to be terrible and I'm not going to like it- not because Hasbro is TEH EVEEL, and not because of the OGL stuff, but simply because I think they are trying to move the rules into a VTT-friendly direction.

And I don't do VTT. But the world moves on, often without me moving wit it.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm reasonably certain that 5.5 is going to be terrible and I'm not going to like it- not because Hasbro is TEH EVEEL, and not because of the OGL stuff, but simply because I think they are trying to move the rules into a VTT-friendly direction.

And I don't do VTT. But the world moves on, often without me moving wit it.

I don't do VTT, either, with the lone exception of when we were shut down for Covid and the only way to safely game was virtually. Even then we used Discord and Zoom.

If the game moves forward in a way that causes me not to want to continue on with WotC, then my group and I will probably go back to 3.5. We have enough options there to last us the rest of our lives and then some. I hope it doesn't come to that, but I fear you may be correct.

 

[Faolyn]

I wouldn't want the Book of Dougs to shake you out of your righteous assertions!

Ah, so you can't, then. Well done, you.