Thoughts on the Failure of Licensed IP in the Hobby: The Lack of Disney-fication is a Feature, not a Bug

[Baron Opal II]

Dallas is interesting... but it's not really a good starting point for non-RPGers to learn RPGing.

I expect that this is true, although I must admit I haven't read the thing.

 

[Haplo781]

The main thing that always made me doubt that Star Trek could even be viable as an RPG is that all works revolve primarily around Starfleet officers, and as such PCs wouldn't decide their actions as equals, but instead have one player have the final say on everything with everyone else expected to do it without much resistence.

That's what makes Star Wars much more playable, and probably hugely more popular for RPGs.Scoundrels take orders only from one person ("Me!") and everything has to be decided by bargaining with other PCs, and even when the party consists of Rebel fighters, hierarchy is more a suggestion than a hard rule that is being enforced.

Rebels and The Bad Batch play out almost exactly like a typical RPG campaign.

 

[Undrave]

Ghostbusters was built along the idea of the players being franchise operators. I think they did stat up the original characters but the goal wasn't to be those characters.

And I'm saying this is what the media Franchise should have turned to.

 

[MGibster]

One thing that makes D&D accessible is the violence treadmill which provides us with some sort of victory condition which is common to most types of games. I know, a lot of people used to tell me you don't "win" traditional RPGS, but that's not true. You get treasure and more powers and that's a type of victory.

 

[MacDhomnuill]

@Snarf Zagyg's point #4 is a much larger issue than I think gets credit. Publishers and designers often have a limited amount of time to gain any traction with their "IP the TTRPG" because their rights to make material for that IP will likely come and go.


YOMV, but it seems as if Star Wars is as much of a Cheesecake Factory in the scope of its focus as D&D. D&D's focus of its fantasy is great for playing D&D-style fantasy, but I have found that it resists the ability to play fantasy outside of that scope, which is far more than people think.

When talking about starwars ttrpgs people over look how prolific WEG starwars was. Lucas sent novel writers the source book as reference material and it was considered cannon. It spawned 3 editions and well over 100 rule books, source books and adventures. What killed WEG SW was bad business management by the companies owners, Lucas was sad to see them go. After WEGs collapse the IP starts hopping from publisher to publisher, each making a quick money grab before losing or dropping the licence.

 

[aramis erak]

I expect that this is true, although I must admit I haven't read the thing.

I have; it's advice is more parlor game than proper RPG.
Hell, the rules won't even let you shoot JR.....

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

The licenced IPs have got a time limit.

The characters from franchises weren't created for a leveling up in the roleplay game version. They started from zero to become hero.

The games based in licences usually used a different system, and lots of players don't want to learn new ones beyond their favorite titles.

Some players would rather to get the lore of their favorite franchise from the fandom wikis, and using their favorite game system.

 

[MGibster]

Some players would rather to get the lore of their favorite franchise from the fandom wikis, and using their favorite game system.

In a lot of ways, that's true. I don't need a sourcebook if I want to run a game set in the Warhammer 40k universe. Not only are there Wikis out there, but I can go to Youtube and watch all manner of videos detailing even the more obscure parts of the setting. I'm starting a Fallout campaign, but the main book only gives you detailed information about the Boston area since that's where the Fallout 4 video game was set. I'm relying on the Wiki to give me the details I need to run a campaign in Phoenix, Arizona.

 

[Staffan]

Not sure how FFG does it but they've had a pretty comprehensive Star Wars RPG in print for about 11 years now (12-23), same edition, consistent mechanics. WEG did it before with a roughly 12 year run (87-99) that covered everything that had been released during their time. WOTC had a similar run of about 11 years (00-11) but released 3 different versions of the game as each of the prequel movies came out. I don't think anyone publishes a game line for over a decade and calls it a failure.

I think with FFG it helps that they don't specifically have a Star Wars RPG license. They have a license for Star Wars Tabletop games, or something along those lines (which is also why they don't sell Star Wars RPG PDFs – for some reason, they're not covered by the license). So the Star Wars RPGs are mostly a side effect of already having the license for X-Wing, Armada, Legion, Imperial Assault, and whatever else they're doing.

And the RPG has been mostly fallow for a while, particularly with the transfer to Edge Studios (another company owned by Asmodee/Embracer). They had a pretty high rate of release at first, both doing three RPGs one year after another, and releasing both splatbooks (6 per game), a few adventures, and a few sourcebooks per line. The splatbooks aren't "pure" splatbooks – they contain things like ships and other equipment as well as rules for more specialized situations (IIRC, the rules for building a ship from scratch are in the AOR Mechanic splatbook). But once that was done, they've slowed down and done both collection books (Gadgets & Gear and Starships & Speeders, collecting a bunch of gear/vehicles from assorted other books) as well as sourcebooks for playing in different eras (starting with the Phantom Menace and ending with Rebels – but so far nothing like the Old or High republic, or the Legends/Expanded Universe post-ROTJ stuff). But AFAIK, nothing new has been released since 2019. They're doing reprints, but not to the point where they're keeping the whole line in print.

 

[masdog]

Great post and thread.

I’d like to add a few thoughts here:
1. I think it really depends on the IP and much freedom it gives you to create your own story.

Star Wars is a great example here because it is such a large universe to play in across various time frames and (now) two continuities. A GM could easily create a story that can both feel familiar to fans without, or only barely touching, the established canon. The same goes for Trek - you can easily craft a ship and crew and plop them in some out of the way place to tell your story while still bringing in familiar elements to link it to canon.

Other licensed IPs don’t really have that freedom because the universe is smaller or has more load bearing characters that are harder to work around.

And that brings me to my 2nd point: the system. The system has to enable you to tell a story that is enjoyable, easy to pick up, and fits in the style of that universe or IP.

WEG’s Star Wars D6 let you tell a story that felt like cinematic like Star Wars while still providing a lot of creative freedom, and it’s relatively simple. I don’t think the WOTC or FFG* offerings really capture this feel. (Character adaptations is one thing I liked about WEG D6 - there are no levels so the writers are free to just adapt characters based on what’s shown/written in published media)

The Star Trek systems I’ve looked at have always felt VERY crunchy.

Other licensed IPs seem to have custom-designed systems specifically for that IP. I was looking through the Power Rangers RPG core book at my FLGS, and it seemed very customized for a Power Rangers story.

I think that D&D (and Pathfinder) excels because it’s really a system with multiple settings. The core rulebooks provide a framework for telling a high fantasy adventure. You don’t have to use any of the settings that WOTC published. That’s harder with licensed IP, even something more open like Star Wars.

* - I haven't played Star Wars FFG. Just read it.

Barbie's Magical Mansion?

That’s called the Barbie Dream House, a miniature tabletop game. It’s expensive, and it’s also got competition from the even more expensive “American Girl Doll” RPG and its slightly cheaper generic 18-inch girl doll knockoffs.