It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[mamba]

Only if they all go to the same alternative content.

If I have 10,000 subscribers right now on my 5E channel and they all leave -

1. If ALL of them go to PF2 I could follow and continue with little impact to my business (aside from the time to learn a new system)

2. On the other hand if 2000 go to PF2, 2000 stay on 5E, 2000 go to COC, 2000 go to SotWW and 2000 go to GURPS. Now my business model is destroyed.

not sure it is, that depends entirely on what you actually cover and how important it is that every single video is about the same TTRPG.

And as I said before, I do not see 5e getting drastically smaller right away anyway, so I am not concerned about your scenario. I do however hope that it does get smaller and that youtubers branch out to cover other games and help with this.

 

[mamba]

Why would they if the new content non 5e get 1k views and the 5e gets 30k for a 15 minute videos?

the theory was they feared that sticking to 5e might doom them because viewers leave. So yes, there is risk in branching out, but so is there in not doing so. Also, just because you initially get fewer views (because you are not known for this type of content) does not mean it has to stay that way. Chances are there are a lot more content creators doing 5e content than say SotDL content, so once word gets out that you do that, you can gain those viewers. Bigger share of a smaller pie still makes for enough to eat...

 

[mamba]

I do not think this is true. Not if iy is your source of income anyway.

easier than adventures or other books, sure. There just is no comparison.

As I said before, if you fear you cannot afford to stick with 5e yet that is exactly what you do, then that is on you. Also, I still am not all that interested in youtubers, they are not why I fought over the OGL 1.0a. So I guess if you think I have to ensure that a 5e youtuber can continue to only make 5e content without a risk of not getting the amount of views they want, then that is just not something I agree with.

 

[Aldarc]

So we are going to trust WOTC then?

At the very least, it seems that you should trust their own words that they did harm content creators and fans rather than trying to convince us otherwise through revisionist history.

What about the people who are being harmed by the community boycots? Is that self-serving to hurt 3rd party creators because you are upset at what WOTC did?

Why should I be financially obligated as a consumer to buy products that support WotC?

 

[ValamirCleaver]

How about comparing YouTube views from paizo or other PF creators….how does that compare to WoTC and 3pp 5e content. Just moving to create 3pp PF content doesn’t mean the creator can make a living like they do for 5e. Let Morrus make pf2e level up and see how it sales. 3pp need 5e adjacent stuff to make a living, it’s not there for other game systems.

The RollForCombat BattleZoo Eldamon guys don't seem to be struggling, even before the post "de-authorization" upsurge for non-Wizbros content...

They can not easily branch out, especially if there is not a market to branch out into.

Someone should tell Questing Beast, Greyhawk Grognard, Tenkar's Tavern, etc... that there's no market for what they've been successfully doing the past 10+ years...

 

[Aldarc]

Let’s look at the million dollar Kickstarter list on Enworld.

23 over a million.
5e related - 15
Apocalypse - 1
Cypher - 1
Year zero engine - 1
D100 - 1
D12 - 1
3 that I couldn’t find rule system for (1ring 2nd edition, 7th sea, and Monty python).

No pathfinder 3pp over a million and other so called popular systems people could move too.

I’m sure if we went to 900k, we’d have even more 5e 3pp like advanced level up.

I think the point is - if 3pp publishers want to make a living doing games, 5e is the game space to be. The others don’t have the following to support multiple companies making game content, much less the side things like podcast, videos, etc.

So I would suggest, those upset about this, give it time like a bad break up and let time heal the wound cause 1-2 years down the line when 1 dnd comes out and it’s potentially flying off the shelf, some people will be looking for a game group to play other lesser known or lesser liked systems…all because of a 3 week time span where they were upset with WoTC.

It doesn't require +1 million dollar Kickstarters to "make it" as a 3pp. Otherwise, we would only be talking about the 23 or less publishers involved for those Kickstarters. One issue that a lot of TTRPG Kickstarters have, FWIW, amounts to either breaking even or taking on a loss due to underestimating time and resources required to publish a TTRPG.

 

[EthanSental]

The RollForCombat BattleZoo Eldamon guys don't seem to be struggling, even before the post "de-authorization" upsurge for non-Wizbros content...

Someone should tell Questing Beast, Greyhawk Grognard, Tenkar's Tavern, etc... that there's no market for what they've been successfully doing the past 10+ years...

I had never heard of roll for combat. Thanks for the suggestion as I checked it out.

But….struggling, hard to say since we really don’t know what revenue a YouTube channel brings in. Looking at their Chanel and the popular videos, the largest is 63k for the OGL video. Then 5 videos from 11k to 23k. After that, then 33 videos between 1k to 9.9k. 30+ were under 1k views.

I guess my question…is that one of the more well known PF orientated channels? If so, kinda low view totals in my opinion. And if they are “making it” then we all should go into YouTube cause 1k views and making a living looks like easier than my current job…but I doubt they are.

 

[Jadeite]

Kobold Press has yet to achieve a 1 million dollar Kickstarter and are regarded as the one of the biggest, if not the biggest, 3PP for 5E.

 

[EthanSental]

It doesn't require +1 million dollar Kickstarters to "make it" as a 3pp. Otherwise, we would only be talking about the 23 or less publishers involved for those Kickstarters. One issue that a lot of TTRPG Kickstarters have, FWIW, amounts to either breaking even or taking on a loss due to underestimating time and resources required to publish a TTRPG.

Missed my point…5e is where the money is at for 3pp to have the best chance at making a profitable product. Going to a smaller game system limits the market as we can see in the Kickstarter…we don’t see cypher, PF, 2d20 with more than 1 or any above 1m. The market isn’t there right now for them to try and risk it.

 

[EthanSental]

Good example in kobold press …go to their store page and sort to the latest releases….you’ll notice a trend of a vast majority are 5e related. I wonder why they aren’t making PF products as much and focusing on 5e.

My last comment - Enworld trailseeker article and game stuff for PF2e closed up shop in March 2020 as in the post cost more to make than the money made. I get being upset but people are taking it way to far to think other game systems can support more creators in the space and make a living and just by jumping ship to it will be enough players to then support more creators. Being mad at WoTC executives isn’t going to magically make other games, and some people shift to, popular enough for 3pp to switch as well.