WotC Wizard's Future Plans Has 3 Big Problems: Ft. The Professor of Tolarion Community College

[Hussar]

Quality is in the eye of the beholder, so saying quality has declined unless there's obvious things like poor editing is really "They don't happen to be publishing things I want."

There is a fair dollop of this. People very often tend to conflate their personal taste with quality.

both those points are fair but not all are skilled in the latter and sometimes new rules are needed, take spelljammer it need far more ship rules for the basic set of things you can do and basic guidance for any of the most common ideas beyond those.

not to say I want a new rule for everything but sometimes you want to do something properly and an expansion is the only way to do it.

OTOH, I went very much the other way for Spelljammer. My players have zero interest in ship to ship combat. And, over the years, I've found that players almost never do. At least in my experience. They want to play their characters and ship to ship combat means you get to spend a fair chunk of time not actually doing that. So, I simply leaned into it. All effects cannot pass outside of gravity planes. No attacks, no spells, nothing. So, all ship to ship combat is boarding actions because you can't really affect the other ship until such time as your gravity planes intersect.

So, extensive ship combat rules would be of no use to me. I HAVE extensive ship to ship combat rules. Several versions for multiple editions. From very rules light to three steps away from Star Fleet Battles. And, every time I've tried to use any of them, the players have completely turned up their noses.

And therein lies the rub. How is WotC supposed to write supplements that make both of us happy?

 

[Stormonu]

3 create better npcs. People have a fondness for minsc/boo plus drizzt. Who are the modern npcs . Who are the modern villains. We have strahd and soth. 2 villains from my childhood. Where’s your Thanos WOTC. Where’s your fresh big bad that takes your party on a great ride

Acerak? Vecna? Kinsaldi Fire Eyes? Auril? Zariel? Mad Maggie? Granny Nightshade?

There's plenty of D&D "big" bad guys in 5E.

 

[Maxperson]

In December, Barnes & Noble had a 50% off sale for all games and hardback books and that included the new Spelljammer. For half off, I was going to take the plunge until I learned it wasn't much of a setting. Very disappointing.

I went and bought 5 board games during that sale! I had gift cards from Christmas, so I had a few hundred in free money to use. It was great! There were no D&D books for me, though, since I tend to buy what I want as it comes out.

 

[Alzrius]

Edit - consider that there are more than 30 (!!!) TSR publications for Dark Sun, alone, as opposed to 3 from WotC, all for 4e, and all three essentially using the basic 4e rules:

List of Dark Sun modules and sourcebooks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not for nothing, but there were thirty-one commercial Forgotten Realms game products released by WotC between 2000 and 2008 for 3.X (counting the standalone DM's screen they released, as well as products without the standard FR branding, such as Ed Greenwood Presents: Elminster's Forgotten Realms, The Grand History of the Realms, and Expedition to the Ruins of Undermountain). Whereas Dark Sun, not counting the Dark Sun Conspectus (which was given away for free), had a grand total of thirty-two game products during its 2E run.

 

[Alzrius]

As someone who owns the complete Arthaus Ravenloft, I was underwhelmed by the 2021 version.

I remember being excited for Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft when I first heard about it, because I thought it was going to continue the timeline of what Arthaus had laid out. Specifically, I had just gotten a copy of Legacy of the Blood: Great Families of the Core, and was very excited by how the authors had been carefully putting forward successors for the mortal darklords who were nearing the end of their lifespans, and wanted to see that idea developed further.

That was just one of the many, many reasons I was disappointed with what VRGtR turned out to be.

 

[SkidAce]

There is a fair dollop of this. People very often tend to conflate their personal taste with quality.


OTOH, I went very much the other way for Spelljammer. My players have zero interest in ship to ship combat. And, over the years, I've found that players almost never do. At least in my experience. They want to play their characters and ship to ship combat means you get to spend a fair chunk of time not actually doing that. So, I simply leaned into it. All effects cannot pass outside of gravity planes. No attacks, no spells, nothing. So, all ship to ship combat is boarding actions because you can't really affect the other ship until such time as your gravity planes intersect.

So, extensive ship combat rules would be of no use to me. I HAVE extensive ship to ship combat rules. Several versions for multiple editions. From very rules light to three steps away from Star Fleet Battles. And, every time I've tried to use any of them, the players have completely turned up their noses.

And therein lies the rub. How is WotC supposed to write supplements that make both of us happy?

Quoted in honor of Star Fleet Battles.
Top of the list with Champions of "Favorite Games We Don't Play Anymore"

 

[Alzrius]

There is a fair dollop of this. People very often tend to conflate their personal taste with quality.


OTOH, I went very much the other way for Spelljammer. My players have zero interest in ship to ship combat. And, over the years, I've found that players almost never do. At least in my experience. They want to play their characters and ship to ship combat means you get to spend a fair chunk of time not actually doing that. So, I simply leaned into it. All effects cannot pass outside of gravity planes. No attacks, no spells, nothing. So, all ship to ship combat is boarding actions because you can't really affect the other ship until such time as your gravity planes intersect.

So, extensive ship combat rules would be of no use to me. I HAVE extensive ship to ship combat rules. Several versions for multiple editions. From very rules light to three steps away from Star Fleet Battles. And, every time I've tried to use any of them, the players have completely turned up their noses.

And therein lies the rub. How is WotC supposed to write supplements that make both of us happy?

I feel confident in saying that there's a happy medium to be had here; I don't know what "extensive" would be in the context of ship-to-ship combat rules (and I'm not sure I buy the premise that such rules necessarily means your characters have nothing to do), but there's surely a way to present something in that regard to the point where it would satisfy many, or even most, of the people who want it without being so expansive that it would be a deal-breaker for the people who like Spelljammer but don't want anything like that. It doesn't have to be an either-or proposition.

 

[wicked cool]

Acerak? Vecna? Kinsaldi Fire Eyes? Auril? Zariel? Mad Maggie? Granny Nightshade?

There's plenty of D&D "big" ba as far as I know appears in critical role

Acerak? Vecna? Kinsaldi Fire Eyes? Auril? Zariel? Mad Maggie? Granny Nightshade?

There's plenty of D&D "big" bad guys in 5E.

Well vecna appeared only in 1990 or critical role.most modern players have not encountered vecna
The rest for the most part are not central villians and several of those do not rise to the levels of the 2 mentioned. One is in an adventure geared towards a young audience.
Now an adventure around stopping vecna sounds promising! I bet most younger players know vecna and demogorgon from stranger things only

There’s a reason why soth is featured on the alternate cover. He’s basically darth Vader in d&d

WOtc take your best assets and make an adventure with vecna. Throw in a beholder encounter that could be a tpk. Throw more adversaries that are truly memorable encounters throughout the adventure like strahd is. Rime had that potential but it’s not as fluid as strahd or even phandelver

 

[Hussar]

I feel confident in saying that there's a happy medium to be had here; I don't know what "extensive" would be in the context of ship-to-ship combat rules (and I'm not sure I buy the premise that such rules necessarily means your characters have nothing to do), but there's surely a way to present something in that regard to the point where it would satisfy many, or even most, of the people who want it without being so expansive that it would be a deal-breaker for the people who like Spelljammer but don't want anything like that. It doesn't have to be an either-or proposition.

Not nothing to do.

Nothing to do that requires my character. You don’t need my character to man the ballista. If I wanted to be an artillerist I’d make that. But my sword and board fighter is now making one attack per round with a ballista. Meanwhile the wizard, who would much rather be casting spells, has to drive the ship because he’s the one tied to the helm. The rogue is now not doing anything rogue like but is dealing with crew stuff. So on and so forth.

Like I said, I’ve tried a LOT of systems with different groups and no one wants them. Again IME.

I honestly think ship to ship combat systems are for dms and not players.

 

[Parmandur]

I feel confident in saying that there's a happy medium to be had here; I don't know what "extensive" would be in the context of ship-to-ship combat rules (and I'm not sure I buy the premise that such rules necessarily means your characters have nothing to do), but there's surely a way to present something in that regard to the point where it would satisfy many, or even most, of the people who want it without being so expansive that it would be a deal-breaker for the people who like Spelljammer but don't want anything like that. It doesn't have to be an either-or proposition.

Spelljammer has ship combat rules: some might argue that they are the happy medium.