It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.

[Scribe]

Simply declining to buy a product is not retaliation .... but declining to buy a product in retaliation is absolutely retaliation



It is harmful if you would have otherwise bought it
.

Harmful, to whom? Wizbro? Because yes thats the intent of not purchasing Wizbro products, to impact (harm) their bottom line due to their behavior.

 

[ECMO3]

Agreed. Paizo has shown nothing but thoughtful inclusiveness in their decisions for years.

I am confident Jessica Price, Diego Valdez and Sarah Marie would disagree with you.

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[ECMO3]

When Ryan Dancey said that a rising tide lifts all ships, it was primarily oriented towards those contributing to DnD's ecosystem. But even then, the whole idea behind "a rising tide lifts all ships" has been criticized pretty heavily, especially since it's "trickle down economics" by another name.

Which D&D creators has "the rising tide" been criticized by? I can point to one that said explicitly he has benefitted - d4 Deep Dive. I have never heard one criticize it.

Call it trickle down economics if you want, it is people making money, most of them very small companies making small amounts of money, and conversely a "falling tide" will beach the small creators long before it beaches WOTC.

 

[ECMO3]

Harmful, to whom? Wizbro? Because yes thats the intent of not purchasing Wizbro products, to impact (harm) their bottom line due to their behavior.

Along with the other 3rd party creators that will suffer as 5E in general suffers.

 

[Scribe]

Along with the other 3rd party creators that will suffer as 5E in general suffers.

5e is released. 5e is out there. 3PP can continue to release, and be supported, forever now thanks to the SRD going into CC.

Me never buying another 'official' Wizbro 5e product, or viewing youtubers who only cover 'official' Wizbro 5e products, is not harming 3PP.

5e is now free from Wizards. It can be supported for eternity and I never have to give a dime to a company no longer interested in providing for what I want.

 

[Retreater]

5e is now free from Wizards. It can be supported for eternity and I never have to give a dime to a company no longer interested in providing for what I want.

I agree. And I prefer most of the 3PP stuff. As long as they get out of my way, WotC can stay in their "walled garden."

 

[mamba]

Along with the other 3rd party creators that will suffer as 5E in general suffers.

you have a very narrow definition of 3pp, basically anyone whose products revolve around WotC products, like maps for WotC adventures, build guides for WotC classes, and so on.

The 3pp market is bigger than that, so at most this is a slight shift within that market.

To give you an admittedly extreme example, if I do not buy Kobold Press’ book of 5e subclasses and instead buy their Black Flag RPG and Monster Manual, how does this hurt KP? If anything they got twice the money from me.
I agree that this shift will rarely stay within one company, but that still does not hurt 3pps as a whole

 

[ECMO3]

you have a very narrow definition of 3pp, basically anyone whose products revolve around WotC products, like maps for WotC adventures, build guides for WotC classes, and so on.

The 3pp market is bigger than that, so at most this is a slight shift within that market.

I am talking in aggregate, while I don't have a narrow definition, the vast majority of TTRPG 3rd party creators, easily over 90%, are either making 5E material, 5E adjacent material, making 5E fan content or playing 5E games professionally.

As the community winds down most creators will suffer. Sure there are a select few that will do better, but most won't and the community overall won't.

To give you an admittedly extreme example, if I do not buy Kobold Press’ book of 5e subclasses and instead buy their Black Flag RPG and Monster Manual, how does this hurt KP? If anything they got twice the money from me.
I agree that this shift will rarely stay within one company, but that still does not hurt 3pps as a whole

IF fewer people are buying KP 5E subclasses then fewer people will be using them, fewer people will be playing in 5E games run by DMs using them, there will be less demand for fan content surrounding them.

Sure you did not hurt KP specifically, you even helped them but you hurt the community, because the community is not going to shift to KP Black Flag and monster manual. They are just going to go away.

 

[ECMO3]

5e is released. 5e is out there. 3PP can continue to release, and be supported, forever now thanks to the SRD going into CC.

If you still play 5E and buy 5E and contribute to 5E sure. But WOTC will benefit from that (more than anyone honestly)

Me never buying another 'official' Wizbro 5e product, or viewing youtubers who only cover 'official' Wizbro 5e products, is not harming 3PP.

Youtubers who only cover WOTC 5E products are 3rd party creators. If you are boycotting them you are hurting 3rd party creators and hurting the community. Now maybe that is a part of the community you don't care about, but it is still part of the community.

5e is now free from Wizards. It can be supported for eternity and I never have to give a dime to a company no longer interested in providing for what I want.

That will be pretty hard to follow through on if you actually buy and use 5E products. Very, very few games are played without any WOTC 5E content outside of the SRD. As a matter of fact I have never playedc in a 5E game that did not include at lest some WOTC licensed material and I can't find a single 5E Fantasy RPG on start playing right now that does not include WOTC content. Not a single one out of several thousand!

While you may not personally might not give a dime to WOTC your DM and other players are.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I do deny that!

First, I deny that declining to buy a product is retaliation.

Second, I deny that declining to buy a product is harmful. That is not taking anything away from anyone.

I could spend every cent of my disposable income on WotC games and it would provide no benefit to 3rd party publishers. I could buy nothing from WotC, and no 3rd parties would suffer.

I was just watching a video essay about this weird thing people do these days where they assume companies have a right to people buying their products and anything that might prevent people from buying from them or simply not buying from them ourselves is seen as infringing on that right.

Then they use the workers they underpay and abuse as hostages, saying you're actually hurting those people when you don't buy the CEO a yacht for his yacht to play with when it's lonely.