Kyle Brink Interviewed by Teos Abadia (Alphastream) on OGL, WotC, & D&D

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context. Company Structure There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers...

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context.

Company Structure
  • There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers.​
  • The hiring process has equity targets to bring in a representative sample of candidates, after which it is who is the best candidate.​
  • There has been increasing diversity in the pool of designers while maintaining quality.​
  • Brink reports to Dan Rawson, senior VP of D&D, who reports to Cynthia Williams, president.​
  • D&D Beyond is the front door to D&D on the web and will be even more so. It is the D&D website, and will become more so.​
  • D&D Game Studio is center for game content. D&D Beyond turns that into a play service. Content gets expressed in ways appropriate to an audiance (ie digital, book, etc.)​
OGL/Creative Commons
  • It was a surprise to some of the D&D team that the OGL might be changed. Partly that was about shielding them from distracting stuff. Brink feels that was too strong a wall and their views might have been beneficial.
  • Some internal feedback from the D&D team reflected the views of external creators.
  • The community's point of view was not the one wining internally, but may have been had people there been able to speak more loudly.
  • The worry was about new technologies and big companies--Brink uses the VR example, with user generated content but poor content controls. They didn't want the term D&D to become 'that video porn game' looking ahead.
  • The position now is that the community is the strongest weapon against that.
  • The royalties were to discourage big companies moving in and redefining D&D. By 'drips and drips' they got to the wrong position. $750K was a ceiling which they felt would not affect most creators, and larger companies would deal directly with WotC.
  • Right now they're looking at protecting D&D via things not now in the Creative Commons. Community protects the open space and WotC protects copyright and trademark.
  • They feel that the community is able to take care of hateful content.
  • They want the creator community. A deal where WotC got more powers to act but lost the creator community was not a good deal.
  • NFTs are not the concern, it's about how people use them for scams.
  • WotC will be publishing a content policy (for representation, hateful content, etc.) and hold themselves to it. They cannot hold others to it.
  • The Creative Commons license chosen's lack of sharealike attribution isn't a problem for WotC. They want people to build stuff they own and don't have to share and build value in their own IP. They've chosen the road which gives creators the choice, and can make any of their content sharealike, but WotC isn't forcing them to.
  • CC means that nobody has to take WotC's word for anything as they don't control that license.
  • The drive to change the OGL was coming from various parts of the organization (legal, business, studio). It was an ongoing effort when Brink arrived.
  • The faster the audience grew the bigger the risk that hateful content or scams would arise, so there was a rising sense of urgency to take action.
  • Did anybody sign the v1.1 version? It was distributed with an NDA, and with some creators a discussion about other arrnagements/licenses they might make separate from the OGL.
  • 'The impression someone could get that I have to sign v1.1 is absotely a believable impression for someone to get'.
  • The design of v1.1. was always going to be an ongoing no-signature process.
  • Feedback from larger creators like Kobold Press, the failing is on WotC for not communicating that they were listening. 'Thanks for the feedback' isn't enough.
  • 'If you're going to write a new OGL to protect yourself from the vulnerabilties of the old OGL, you kinda have to take the old OGL off the table, otherwise you're not protecting yourself at all'. There's no point in changing the OGL if you don't de-authorize the old one.
  • They weren't worried about competitors arising from within the community. They love the creator community, and WotC can't satisfy all appetites. That serves the broad needs of the player community.
  • They wanted to have closer relationships with the most successful creators, talking to them about licenses and going bigger. The tiering structure was meant to identify those creators. 'The way it was executed was very cleary going to be an attenuating destructive structure which we did not want.'
  • The OGL survey results were clear, from a range of people, 15000 responses. The intent was to treat it like a playtest but it became obvious where it was going. The survey feedback supported CC, and there was no reason to drag it out.
  • WotC still has their concerns, but their approach to it has changed (to a combo of copyrght/trademark and community).
  • Putting D&D into CC has made de-authing the OGL unimportant to WotC.
  • The SRD will be updated to continue to be compatible with evolving rules.
  • They're looking at adding the 3.5 SRD to the SRD but they have to review that content to make sure they're not accidentally putting stuff into CC.
Company Culture
  • People being afraid to speak up is a sign of 'immature management' and leading from ego.
  • That's not the kind of leaders WotC has today, but Brink cannot speak about those who were there before he arrived.
  • Brink feels that every month he is there people feel more comfortable speaking up, though that doesn't mean they'll always agree. But they will listen.
  • 'That's not how we operate today but I can certainly believe echoes of that in the past'.
VTTs/Digital/DDB
  • Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds are important to the hobby and WotC.
  • WotC is also making digital playspaces. The goal is to give more choice. The way WotC succeeds is if they make the best stuff. It's a 'virtuos' competition.
  • The license that Roll20 etc. has to sell WotC content still applies. Remains to be seen down the road.
  • It's possible that third party content will be seen inside DDB or the VTT but it takes a fair amount of work to being a piece of content in. It would have to be a pretty important piece of third party content. Brink could see a day when that would happen.
One D&D
  • The OGL issue has not impacted the One D&D strategy. It has maybe helped WotC express their plans publicly.
  • D&D should be a living game which evolves but is familiar.
  • The One D&D timeline is not changed, but the playtest timeline was impacted by the OGL situation. They'll get back on track real soon.
  • A professional research team gathers the survey information.
  • There are also internal playtests with robust feedback.
Other
  • The game team has gained more of a voice.
  • More trust has been built between design leadership and the executive team.
  • Dan Rawson's role is new and is the first time the D&D brand has been represented at that level at the executive level.
  • Cynthia Williams is empathetic and data-oriented, and willing to change direction.
  • It sounds like they'd consider the SRD being placed into French, German, Italian, and Spanish, though Brink did not promise.
 

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Azgulor

Adventurer
Time stamps are included in the video’s dooblidoo.

I really appreciated how Teos gave the interview room to breathe, asking good, even pointed questions, without expecting Kyle to dish on all the internal goings-on at WotC, or to throw anyone under the bus.
(I'm still making my way through the thread, so I apologize if this covered further downstream...)

So, is it ok for white guys to play D&D again? Is there an updated opinion about basements?

And if that topic wasn't addressed in the interview, that tells me that "control the narrative" is winning out, and the relevance of any interview that doesn't address it is greatly diminished in value.
 

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dave2008

Legend
(I'm still making my way through the thread, so I apologize if this covered further downstream...)

So, is it ok for white guys to play D&D again? Is there an updated opinion about basements?

And if that topic wasn't addressed in the interview, that tells me that "control the narrative" is winning out, and the relevance of any interview that doesn't address it is greatly diminished in value.
That was never the opinion in the first interview. So if that was your take - you were just wrong. Things taken out of context can lead you to faulty conclusions.

The only diversity issue discussed in this interview was hiring. The create a pool of representative applicants and then hire the most qualified / best candidate in as color-blind manner possible. There goal is to always choose the best candidate available.
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
Great. Now I want a McPizza. And McPizza hasn't been available in decades.
This sounds like the perfect opportunity to invent Time Travel Door Dash.
McPizza. Now that one takes me back. I haven't thought of that in years.

A quick google brings me to the McDonald's wiki[*] which tells me that there's still a location in Orlando Florida that sells it. It can't be the same pizza tho - if there's only one restaurant doing it then it can't be supplied by McD's corporate - it's got to be GFS pizza with a McD's logo on it (of course, that may be what the original McPizza was too...)


[*]Of course there's a McDonald's wiki and of course it's a Fandom site.
 

Timespike

A5E Designer and third-party publisher
I’m sure Kyle is absolutely sincere and is doing the best he can.
I’m also sure he not privy to the meetings the top management are having about this, and what they plan to do long term.

I”m not dismissing his efforts, just the goodwill of top brass.
Yeah, this is a really good, succinct summary of my own views. I'd also add that you can have someone good at the top and the "squad leaders" (lower management) can also be good and you can still have deep problems in an institution.
 

From today's view... they were never good. Those were the only burgers in my youth though, and they were quite affordable. And they had what students need: fat and sugar.
I remember Quarter Pounders being good too. Burger King had Whoppers... which were alright, but a bit on the mayonnaisey side. Also, the patty slid around the bun as it was being consumed. Not fun too deal with from the 'keep the sauce off my pants' perspective. Also, if you delved too deeply, why is this piece of meat trying to escape me? Also not fun to ponder.
 

Azgulor

Adventurer
I would certainly hope so. Damage control is a good thing IMO.
Damage Control with a goal of contrition can be a good thing. Damage Control solely for self-interested blood stoppage is just spin. Remains to be seen where this will ultimately fall but IMO it skews more towards spin.
 

Azgulor

Adventurer
That was never the opinion in the first interview. So if that was your take - you were just wrong. Things taken out of context can lead you to faulty conclusions.

The only diversity issue discussed in this interview was hiring. The create a pool of representative applicants and then hire the most qualified / best candidate in as color-blind manner possible. There goal is to always choose the best candidate available.
I've watched that little speech multiple times now. I don't believe I am wrong. At best, he was offering an empty platitude in the hopes of virtue signaling. It's not like he appointed a diversity replacement and then resigned. Even if that's not how he meant it, it was an incredibly boneheaded thing to say.
 

I would politely disagree.

McDonalds does offer quality. You are always going to get like a dry, specifically-flavoured 5/10 burger, narrow, crispy 6.5/10 chips, and 4/10 "milkshake" (and I use the term advisedly m'lud), plus some weird specialities from McDonalds. You will never get a 3/10 burger unless something has gone psychotically wrong, and you can probably just hand it back to them and be passed a replacement. So the quality offered by Maccy Ds is reliability. Also speed of service - that is a kind of quality. I'm never going to be waiting more than like 5-10 minutes, even at a fairly rushed time at a Maccy Ds (not true even at a KFC, let alone a Burger King or Wendys).

So there is a connection - McDonalds possess specific qualities - cheap, fast, and reliable. Other fast food restaurants typically struggle to meet those. In a lot of places you'll be able to do better. I mean, living in North London (once more), I am literally a 5-minute walk from a peri-peri chicken place which is as cheap as McDonalds non-budget items (i.e quarterpounder etc.), almost as fast, and much much higher quality (rather shockingly - there's a reason it usually has 4.8/5 stars on most review systems). Logically then could it succeed like McDonalds has? No. Because the food is slightly more niche (albeit not very) and more importantly, it doesn't have decades of branding and culture behind it. It also has a ridiculous name lol.
And all of what you said is largely true for most of their core menu regardless of where in the world you go, which I'd argue is definitely a form of a quality product since familiarity is something many of their customers are looking for. Pretty similar to D&D really.
 

And all of what you said is largely true for most of their core menu regardless of where in the world you go, which I'd argue is definitely a form of a quality product since familiarity is something many of their customers are looking for. Pretty similar to D&D really.
That's what I'm arguing, yeah.

I wouldn't suggest D&D was relatively anywhere near as dubious as Maccy Ds inherent quality wise, but the reason D&D is so extremely far ahead of other RPGs is essentially the same reason Maccy Ds is ahead of many other food brands (albeit McDonalds is in an infinitely more competitive and higher stakes market) - that being decades of brand-building and the fact that huge numbers of people have tried it and know what it's like, and trust the brand.

D&D also benefits because the perceived hurdle to trying another brand is absolutely huge. It's like if people thought that going to Burger King the first time required you to fill out a 20-page form in triplicate, to have a photo ID, and sit through a 2-hour video and test or something.
 

I've watched that little speech multiple times now. I don't believe I am wrong. At best, he was offering an empty platitude in the hopes of virtue signaling. It's not like he appointed a diversity replacement and then resigned. Even if that's not how he meant it, it was an incredibly boneheaded thing to say.
What specifically are you trying to point to? Because at no point in what he said did I hear "you know what we need right now? less customers". He wasn't talking about people PLAYING the game, he was talking about people MAKING the game. He definitely said people like him need to get out of the way and let others come forward, which was clearly him speaking about the number of people who come from his background having leadership roles.
 

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