Kyle Brink Interviewed by Teos Abadia (Alphastream) on OGL, WotC, & D&D

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context. Company Structure There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers...

D&D executive producer's Kyle Brink's second hour-long interview OGL/D&D has dropped--this one is with Teos Abadia, otherwise known as Alphastream. The notes below are my attempt to paraphrase the main things Brink said, but as always you should watch the actual video if you want the full context.

Company Structure
  • There's around 30 people on the D&D team, and that many again freelancers.​
  • The hiring process has equity targets to bring in a representative sample of candidates, after which it is who is the best candidate.​
  • There has been increasing diversity in the pool of designers while maintaining quality.​
  • Brink reports to Dan Rawson, senior VP of D&D, who reports to Cynthia Williams, president.​
  • D&D Beyond is the front door to D&D on the web and will be even more so. It is the D&D website, and will become more so.​
  • D&D Game Studio is center for game content. D&D Beyond turns that into a play service. Content gets expressed in ways appropriate to an audiance (ie digital, book, etc.)​
OGL/Creative Commons
  • It was a surprise to some of the D&D team that the OGL might be changed. Partly that was about shielding them from distracting stuff. Brink feels that was too strong a wall and their views might have been beneficial.
  • Some internal feedback from the D&D team reflected the views of external creators.
  • The community's point of view was not the one wining internally, but may have been had people there been able to speak more loudly.
  • The worry was about new technologies and big companies--Brink uses the VR example, with user generated content but poor content controls. They didn't want the term D&D to become 'that video porn game' looking ahead.
  • The position now is that the community is the strongest weapon against that.
  • The royalties were to discourage big companies moving in and redefining D&D. By 'drips and drips' they got to the wrong position. $750K was a ceiling which they felt would not affect most creators, and larger companies would deal directly with WotC.
  • Right now they're looking at protecting D&D via things not now in the Creative Commons. Community protects the open space and WotC protects copyright and trademark.
  • They feel that the community is able to take care of hateful content.
  • They want the creator community. A deal where WotC got more powers to act but lost the creator community was not a good deal.
  • NFTs are not the concern, it's about how people use them for scams.
  • WotC will be publishing a content policy (for representation, hateful content, etc.) and hold themselves to it. They cannot hold others to it.
  • The Creative Commons license chosen's lack of sharealike attribution isn't a problem for WotC. They want people to build stuff they own and don't have to share and build value in their own IP. They've chosen the road which gives creators the choice, and can make any of their content sharealike, but WotC isn't forcing them to.
  • CC means that nobody has to take WotC's word for anything as they don't control that license.
  • The drive to change the OGL was coming from various parts of the organization (legal, business, studio). It was an ongoing effort when Brink arrived.
  • The faster the audience grew the bigger the risk that hateful content or scams would arise, so there was a rising sense of urgency to take action.
  • Did anybody sign the v1.1 version? It was distributed with an NDA, and with some creators a discussion about other arrnagements/licenses they might make separate from the OGL.
  • 'The impression someone could get that I have to sign v1.1 is absotely a believable impression for someone to get'.
  • The design of v1.1. was always going to be an ongoing no-signature process.
  • Feedback from larger creators like Kobold Press, the failing is on WotC for not communicating that they were listening. 'Thanks for the feedback' isn't enough.
  • 'If you're going to write a new OGL to protect yourself from the vulnerabilties of the old OGL, you kinda have to take the old OGL off the table, otherwise you're not protecting yourself at all'. There's no point in changing the OGL if you don't de-authorize the old one.
  • They weren't worried about competitors arising from within the community. They love the creator community, and WotC can't satisfy all appetites. That serves the broad needs of the player community.
  • They wanted to have closer relationships with the most successful creators, talking to them about licenses and going bigger. The tiering structure was meant to identify those creators. 'The way it was executed was very cleary going to be an attenuating destructive structure which we did not want.'
  • The OGL survey results were clear, from a range of people, 15000 responses. The intent was to treat it like a playtest but it became obvious where it was going. The survey feedback supported CC, and there was no reason to drag it out.
  • WotC still has their concerns, but their approach to it has changed (to a combo of copyrght/trademark and community).
  • Putting D&D into CC has made de-authing the OGL unimportant to WotC.
  • The SRD will be updated to continue to be compatible with evolving rules.
  • They're looking at adding the 3.5 SRD to the SRD but they have to review that content to make sure they're not accidentally putting stuff into CC.
Company Culture
  • People being afraid to speak up is a sign of 'immature management' and leading from ego.
  • That's not the kind of leaders WotC has today, but Brink cannot speak about those who were there before he arrived.
  • Brink feels that every month he is there people feel more comfortable speaking up, though that doesn't mean they'll always agree. But they will listen.
  • 'That's not how we operate today but I can certainly believe echoes of that in the past'.
VTTs/Digital/DDB
  • Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds are important to the hobby and WotC.
  • WotC is also making digital playspaces. The goal is to give more choice. The way WotC succeeds is if they make the best stuff. It's a 'virtuos' competition.
  • The license that Roll20 etc. has to sell WotC content still applies. Remains to be seen down the road.
  • It's possible that third party content will be seen inside DDB or the VTT but it takes a fair amount of work to being a piece of content in. It would have to be a pretty important piece of third party content. Brink could see a day when that would happen.
One D&D
  • The OGL issue has not impacted the One D&D strategy. It has maybe helped WotC express their plans publicly.
  • D&D should be a living game which evolves but is familiar.
  • The One D&D timeline is not changed, but the playtest timeline was impacted by the OGL situation. They'll get back on track real soon.
  • A professional research team gathers the survey information.
  • There are also internal playtests with robust feedback.
Other
  • The game team has gained more of a voice.
  • More trust has been built between design leadership and the executive team.
  • Dan Rawson's role is new and is the first time the D&D brand has been represented at that level at the executive level.
  • Cynthia Williams is empathetic and data-oriented, and willing to change direction.
  • It sounds like they'd consider the SRD being placed into French, German, Italian, and Spanish, though Brink did not promise.
 

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mamba

Legend
That is partially, but not entirely true... again, ignoring that difference is something you do at your own peril.
then tell me what you think it consistently measures, I am not aware of anything

That's too bad. You've missed some good stuff. See my comment above.
yeah, not much though… I am not saying I never heard any, I just do not pay attention to the charts, and what I like vs how well it does in the charts has yet again no correlation
 
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Jer

Legend
Supporter
My point was not that McD is bad, it was that sales and quality do not correlate
Except that the McD's example actually does show that sales and quality do correlate, just not in a 1-1 fashion. Sales at the level that McDonald's operates at don't correlate with "excellence" it correlates with "a consistent quality product that is 'good enough' for the average consumer". You know what you're going to get at a McD's and it delivers exactly what you expect every time.

And that's the same level D&D operates at - the mass market. Sales correlate with an average product that is good enough for the average D&D DM. It's never going to reach the kind of excellence you might want because your definition of excellence is going to be someone else's "I don't want this". Because that kind of quality is subjective. Just like what I consider an excellent burger is going to be called "raw hamburger" by a number of my friends. But if it hits the middle all the time then sales will be high because lots of folks can agree that it's certainly a burger of middling quality that is good enough.

This is why 3pp is so important for folks who are unsatisfied with what you get from Wizards. Because McDonald's is there for everyone but some folks would prefer 5 Guys and some would prefer Steak and Shake.
 

and marketing, and a ton of other stuff, so no, number of sales and quality do not correlate. Saying something is good because it sold a lot is simply a non sequitur
You're not getting this right. Saying 'sales and quality correlate' is not the same as saying 'high sales means high quality'. You've been going off in the wrong direction in your last few posts because you are assuming what's being said is the latter.
 

Dausuul

Legend
it’s not that popularity counterindicates quality, there simply is no correlation, and always getting something about average is very much not a sign of excellence, which is what the sales would lead you to believe you get, if there were one

My point was not that McD is bad, it was that sales and quality do not correlate
There are good things that sell poorly and bad things that sell well. On average, however, good things tend to sell better than bad things.
 

mamba

Legend
25 years ago when we made a trip to other countries in Europe, reliability was quality for us.
maybe to you, to me it sounds like risk aversion and sticking to what is familiar.

Again, my point is not that McD is bad, it is that the level of sales is not indicative of the level of quality
 


mamba

Legend
You're not getting this right. Saying 'sales and quality correlate' is not the same as saying 'high sales means high quality'. You've been going off in the wrong direction in your last few posts because you are assuming what's being said is the latter.
well, that to me was pretty much what the OP was implying.

As to whether they correlate at all, that seems to depend on the market. I am much more inclined to say sales indicate a general minimum level of quality, but that still is no real correlation, there simply are a lot more factors to consider.

To get away from food, a $100k BMW will have better quality than a $10k used car, yet the sales of the latter are much higher
 

that is called nostalgia ;)
Nostalgia is a huge factor there but there are often real changes too.

Giving a specific example, you could look at the entry of Papa Johns into the UK. From 1999 to about 2010-ish, when they were expanding and gaining market share, they were importing ingredients from the US, and this made them drastically, noticeably superior to UK versions of other US pizza chains (principally Pizza Hut and Dominos, the latter of which was truly "cardboard pizza" in that era). However, in like 2010 or thereabouts, they decided to stop doing this, and it caused a very distinct drop in quality. It made sense, because if your competitors are 5/10, why do you need to be 8.5/10? (UK pizza grades here, I know a UK 8.5 for a pizza is like a US 5 at best) But there was a real change in quality, and it's not just nostalgia. And a lot of businesses eventually do something similar.
 

maybe to you, to me it sounds like risk aversion and sticking to what is familiar.

Again, my point is not that McD is bad, it is that the level of sales is not indicative of the level of quality

You seem fast to make assumptions
...
I was 17 or just 18. We only had so much money, we tried different kinds of food... then we sticked to what we knew...

The question also is, how narrowly you define quality.
 

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