1.1/Terms Signature Leak, it was a draft?

[Ruin Explorer]

I am beginning to think it was hardcopy handed to people in a meeting.

The meeting was virtual...

Dude do you think WotC like, flew all the 3PPs to Cascadia and put them up in hotels and stuff for a meeting? Because they definitely did not lol. That's like a 6000 mile flight from the UK lol. Even from parts of the US it's extremely far (WotC are in Seattle).

 

[dave2008]

It was a term sheet. I would guess it contained some boxes with prefilled numbers and lists of extra benefits. Just the fact there being more space in the boxes than what was filled out might be an indication that extras could be added. However I think the first sentence in your quoted paragraph is more telling: It was expected to be signed. That likely leaves very little wiggle room for the big picture.

PS I updated the OP again to clarify my potential misinterpretation

 

[dave2008]

The meeting was virtual...

That is what I assumed. I just remember Morrus saying he couldn't attend and so didn't have the documents as he couldn't sign the NDA. Why would he not be able to sign the NDA unless it was in person. I could easily be miss remembering. Maybe @Morrus can clear up the question: was the 3PP meeting about the OGL with WotC to be in person or virtual? Sorry to summon you, but I didn't want to misquote you anymore than I may have.

EDIT: Morrus confirmed it was virtual.

Dude do you think WotC like, flew all the 3PPs to Cascadia and put them up in hotels and stuff for a meeting? Because they definitely did not lol. That's like a 6000 mile flight from the UK lol. Even from parts of the US it's extremely far (WotC are in Seattle).

I know - I drove from Seattle to Ohio last year. It took me 3 days.

FYI, strange fact, it is (currently) cheaper to fly to Europe from Seattle than from Ohio, even though Ohio is 2000 miles closer!

 

[Ruin Explorer]

FYI, strange fact, it is (currently) cheaper to fly to Europe from Seattle than from Ohio, even though Ohio is 2000 miles closer!

Huh. That's pretty weird. Flights to/from the US/Europe (including the UK) are often a bit weird though, as they try and fill them up, and depending on the timing. Flying to the US I believe at least pre-COVID the optimal booking time was 1 month before going, price-wise, and then there was another, lesser low even closer to flight time. And you sometimes find wacky routes are much cheaper - I know when my wife flew to the US last, flying to Dublin and then from there was cheaper than flying from any UK airport, even though like, no way is that cheaper in terms of fuel and wear and tear and so on. Some destinations on mainland Europe it was the same way - even though virtually all of them involved flying "the wrong way" (at least Dublin was arguably "the right way") and a significantly longer total flight distance.

Air travel - a goddamn eco-unfriendly mystery!

 

[Clint_L]

The only claim of this sorts i am aware of dnd shorts making is 3 minutes into this video: The exact phrasing is that ogl1.1 "was sent out to creators with a contract for them to sign". It is not clear from this video in isolation that he is refering to the separate improved deals, and hence if this video was the first time someone heard about this issue they could be forgiven to misconstrue that the contracts in question was the ogl1.1 itself. It was not. It however heavily indicate 1.1 was not meant to change as there were other clearly signable contracts based on the ogl1.1 premise.

I think DnDShorts got played by his supposed leaks, because he is not a journalist and did not perform anything like the proper diligence in trying to verify claims and taking unverifiable claims with a grain of salt. Put bluntly, he seems to have an unreasonable amount of trust in his leaks, even after they were demonstrably shown to have misled him.

The thing with leakers is that they always have an agenda. That's journalism 101. You have to be super cautious about relying on them, and check whatever you can. Anything that you can't verify has to be used very cautiously. Because leakers can and will (and in this case did) use a sympathetic media source to push their agenda.

 

[dave2008]

Huh. That's pretty weird. Flights to/from the US/Europe (including the UK) are often a bit weird though, as they try and fill them up, and depending on the timing. Flying to the US I believe at least pre-COVID the optimal booking time was 1 month before going, price-wise, and then there was another, lesser low even closer to flight time. And you sometimes find wacky routes are much cheaper - I know when my wife flew to the US last, flying to Dublin and then from there was cheaper than flying from any UK airport, even though like, no way is that cheaper in terms of fuel and wear and tear and so on. Some destinations on mainland Europe it was the same way - even though virtually all of them involved flying "the wrong way" (at least Dublin was arguably "the right way") and a significantly longer total flight distance.

Air travel - a goddamn eco-unfriendly mystery!

It is weird for sure!

I must also clarify that my wife (who does all of he flight booking) always looks for the flights with the least number of stops / shortest trip time vs the cheapest price. We are contemplating a move to Seattle and we have been making yearly trips to Europe the past 3 years so we were curious how much more that would set us back. We were happy to see it wouldn't!

 

[dave2008]

It was a term sheet. I would guess it contained some boxes with prefilled numbers and lists of extra benefits. Just the fact there being more space in the boxes than what was filled out might be an indication that extras could be added.

However, that doesn't really meet the definition of "the sheets included language suggesting negotiation was possible" to me. But we don't really know.

However I think the first sentence in your quoted paragraph is more telling: It was expected to be signed. That likely leaves very little wiggle room for the big picture.

I did want to clarify that IMO, the sentences following are meant to support the journalist claim that the document was expected to be signed. However, I don't think they do. The first sentence is not a declaration of fact. That being said, I have basically decided I am really no more knowledgeable than when I was before this exercise and I really need to give it up and move on!

 

[Enrahim2]

I think DnDShorts got played by his supposed leaks, because he is not a journalist and did not perform anything like the proper diligence in trying to verify claims and taking unverifiable claims with a grain of salt. Put bluntly, he seems to have an unreasonable amount of trust in his leaks, even after they were demonstrably shown to have misled him.

The thing with leakers is that they always have an agenda. That's journalism 101. You have to be super cautious about relying on them, and check whatever you can. Anything that you can't verify has to be used very cautiously. Because leakers can and will (and in this case did) use a sympathetic media source to push their agenda.

Somewhat off topic, but this video was made before the leaks directly to him as far as I am aware. Indeed I would guess it might have been the popularity of this particular video that might have prompted someone to make contact with him.

It is also worth adding that this claim that ogl1.1 came with separate contracts was well known to me by the time he made this video, so this information would in no way have to rely on any leaks directly to him, neither are they claimed to be so. It was merely a restatement of a well known fact to those following the situation closely.

 

[Morrus]

Maybe @Morrus can clear up the question: was the 3PP meeting about the OGL with WotC to be in person or virtual?

I wasn't going to travel to America for it. Yep, it was virtual.

 

[dave2008]

I wasn't going to travel to America for it. Yep, it was virtual.

Thank you for the clarification!