Ginny Di interviews WotC's Kyle Brink

Continuing the D&D executive producer's interview tour, gaming influencer Ginny Di asks a WotC's Kyle Brink about the OGL and other things.

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[UngeheuerLich]

Another important example to me is in the first interview with 3BH where KB stated that -

1. by the time 1.1 was leaked, they had already moved on from it, but,
2. they were afraid (I think that's the word he used) to say any response.

I find these answers to be completely incongruous, because if No 1 was true, then it would be the most obvious thing in the world to come out immediately and say "no, no, please don't worry, we know 1.1 was wrong and we have moved on. We'll have a new version soon".

So you see, to me, pretty much everything he says in relation to "the saga", is complete BS.

I disagree. I think at that point, anything WotC would have said would not have mattered. After the first leak, they lost the opportunity to tell their story, no matter how true. They would have been called liars and so on.
People want to believe that the corporations are the bad players.

My personal opinion: I think the 3pp who were under NDA and leaked everything did it in a way to deal maximum damage. They could probably have either came out earlier or later or actually try to do it without going public.
For all we know they could have told WotC that they are on board and then stabbing them in the back, because they smelled a lot of profit.
I don't say this is how it actually was, but if it had been that way, I bet it had backfired even more if WotC tried to tell that truth. Because 3pp are always the good ones and the big corp is evil.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I liked this interview and I liked her commentary. First time seeing this youtuber. It's probably my favourite out of the three I've watched.

 

[Jadeite]

My personal opinion: I think the 3pp who were under NDA and leaked everything did it in a way to deal maximum damage. They could probably have either came out earlier or later or actually try to do it without going public.
For all we know they could have told WotC that they are on board and then stabbing them in the back, because they smelled a lot of profit.
I don't say this is how it actually was, but if it had been that way, I bet it had backfired even more if WotC tried to tell that truth. Because 3pp are always the good ones and the big corp is evil.

WotC's clumsiness was what maximized damage. They tried to shock and awe the publishers over the holidays and weren't prepared for the backlash they got. You can't blame their PR department botching their "apology" on some leaker. They continued to use highly ambiguous language while the community was already questioning their intent. Their VTT policies were rather hostile towards existing VTTs, making Kyle Brink's recent statements rather questionable.
And Ginny Di did a good job with her interview and commentary.

 

[Bedrockgames]

WotC's clumsiness was what maximized damage. They tried to shock and awe the publishers over the holidays and weren't prepared for the backlash they got. You can't blame their PR department botching their "apology" on some leaker. They continued to use highly ambiguous language while the community was already questioning their intent. Their VTT policies were rather hostile towards existing VTTs, making Kyle Brink's recent statements rather questionable.
And Ginny Di did a good job with her interview and commentary.

I would say trying to deauthorize the OGL is what did the maximum damage. I don't think the issue was third party publishers or even publicists (though whoever did PR in the days after didn't help). This was a policy issue, not a messaging issue. That is why the backlash spanned across all sectors of the hobby and cut across divides

 

[mamba]

In this interview for example he states "1.2 was a significant departure from 1.1" - that is a total lie.

no registration, no fees over 750k, no sublicensing of the content, that is a significant departure. 1.2 was closer to 1.0 than to 1.1

What remained over 1.0 is mostly something you think they might abuse if you do not trust them, which at that point no one did, and of course VTT and games.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

WotC's clumsiness was what maximized damage. They tried to shock and awe the publishers over the holidays and weren't prepared for the backlash they got. You can't blame their PR department botching their "apology" on some leaker. They continued to use highly ambiguous language while the community was already questioning their intent. Their VTT policies were rather hostile towards existing VTTs, making Kyle Brink's recent statements rather questionable.
And Ginny Di did a good job with her interview and commentary.

See, it is you who puts blame on anyone. I don't blame 3pp for what they did. I just say: big 3pp are totally helpless people. They are also profit oriented and know when to strike back. It is good that the community helped them not fall victim to the big bully.

 

[mamba]

It is good that the community helped them not fall victim to the big bully.

and this too is narrative, maybe true or maybe the most insidious part.

What if this had always been intended as an open discussion, it just started with a really awful proposal. What if what they did was ask for feedback and were open to listening and changing the terms and in fact were already in the middle of the 1.2 draft when 1.1 leaked, and planning to release the new proposed OGL to wider review once it had been polished enough that the ‘big 20 3pps’ were ok with it?

That they were bullies throwing their weight around is an assumption, they could also have been in a discussion among equals (despite being the one making the most money).

We have no idea what was actually said in the meetings, how much pressure there was. We assume WotC went evil based on the terms of 1.1 (hard not to…), but what if this really was just them being paranoid and missing the forest for the trees?

I am not saying this is what definitely happened, but I am not ruling it out either at this point.

I am not sure where I stand on this, or rather I guess I am, I just am not in either the ‘we must abandon WotC’, nor in the ‘everything is forgiven, let’s just move on’ camp.

I guess one thing we can all agree on is that actions speak louder than words and that the CC is a good first step. Certainly better than any of us were expecting after the leaked 1.1 and the 1.2 draft.
So as far as I am concerned that bought them some goodwill. Enough for me to listen (but still drawing my own conclusions).

If they keep moving in that direction (release a new SRD for 1DD, keep licensing it to other VTTs, etc.) then that starts rebuilding trust / goodwill. If they don’t, well then we have 5.1 under the CC and are free to move on with that or without it.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

and this too is narrative, maybe true or maybe the most insidious part.

Exactly my point.

I should have said "bully" or better "800lb gorilla"

 

[mcmillan]

Another important example to me is in the first interview with 3BH where KB stated that -

1. by the time 1.1 was leaked, they had already moved on from it, but,
2. they were afraid (I think that's the word he used) to say any response.

I find these answers to be completely incongruous, because if No 1 was true, then it would be the most obvious thing in the world to come out immediately and say "no, no, please don't worry, we know 1.1 was wrong and we have moved on. We'll have a new version soon".

I actually think this is probably one of the comments that is more honest and less in need of spin if true. If they really were already revising things and thinking a new version was almost ready to release I can totally understand thinking it better to wait a bit and release it along with an initial statement. But the longer it took to get everyone on board to release it the more important they might have felt that whatever they put out be closer to an acceptable version, meaning even more changes to go through getting approval on. And then they get stuck in a cycle of continuuously delaying and wanting to make more changes. Yeah it ended up delayed a long time but it's not unreasonable for them to think at the time it might have been the right initial decisions and Kyle acknowledged that in hindsight made things worse

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Great interview!