But it does, without the WOTC purchase the market will be smaller. It is the "rising tide" philosophy or as others here have labeled it the "trickle down" effect.
It is time to forgive WOTC and get back onboard.
But it does, without the WOTC purchase the market will be smaller. It is the "rising tide" philosophy or as others here have labeled it the "trickle down" effect.
But they won't that is the point, or more accurately they won't as much. Hurting the 5E market (which is primarily driven by WOTC products) will hurt the market for those things. It is not "magic".
You can support who you want, if you want to boycott WOTC regardless of what impact it has on livelihoods of others that is your choice, but you should at least be honest with yourself about it.
As for as being manipulative, what I am doing on this thread is certainly no more manipulative than when I and many other people on this forum were telling people to boycott WOTC and cancel their DDB subscriptions a month ago (or when I went further on a post that got me banned from a thread). I guess it is good manuipulation to tell people not to buy WOTC products, but it is bad manipulation to tell them to buy them?
Call it manipulation if you want, but there were a ton of people throughout the community "emotionally manipulating" others last month and there are still other people doing it now, including others on this very thread. The common thing in my manipulation both during the controversy and now; is I am advocating the actions that at the time I think are in the best interest of the hobby, game and its creators.
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Incenjucar
Legend
WotC does not revenue share. 3P developers make nothing off of WotC purchases.
The continued existence of WotC and their marketing of the base D&D game helps to maintain the size of the player base, but for 3P to make money you have to send them that money, and any money that goes to them does not go to WotC unless the employees go buy some WotC stuff with their paychecks or something.
The rising tide is more people playing fantasy RPGs. WotC's marketing budget can influence that, but so can 3P developers becoming so popular that people forget about WotC entirely.
mamba
Legend
Were you for or against boycotting WotC a month ago?
As to the best interest of the 3pps, we simply seem to disagree what that is or how boycotting WotC would affect it
Aldarc
Legend
WotC is not the sole 5e market. 5e is now bigger than WotC. WotC tried to shut down the OGL, in part, because they wanted a bigger slice of 3pp money. Kobold Press and other 3rd Party Publishers are creating their own versions of 5e and products that remain compatible with 5e. I don't have to buy WotC products to support them in that endeavor. I can use my limited funds to directly support 3pp who are making 5e products, and 3pp will continue getting more money and support from me than you will probably ever send their way. Moreover, WotC IS NOT ENTITLED TO MY MONEY like you think that they are. I am welcome to spend my money how I please, where I please, and on whom I please. I can spend as much or as little in this hobby as I wish with the money that I have. The impact that my spending choices on WotC products has on the livelihoods of 3pp is exceedingly negligble because I will be supporting the 3pp I like directly rather than rely on the magical thinking of trickle down economics. I guarantee you that I have probably directly supported more 3pp than you ever will.
The bottom line is that it's bad manipulation to gaslight people. It's bad emotional manipulation to tell falseholds like that if we don't buy WotC products that we are hurting 3rd party publishers. It's bad emotional manipulation when you directly tell a 3rd Party Publisher in this thread that they are being bad for not buying WotC products. It's bad emotional manipulation when you engage in false equivalence arguments like in this quote.
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Yes, I was for that and some less legal methods to deal with them as well.
Absolutely they do make money off of the market improving. Look at all the videos from creators online about WOTC-produced products/builds etc. All the DMs Guild products sold as supplements to WOTC products etc.
Maintaining the player base maintains the market so people do send 3P creators monry.
As I said a couple posts ago, I don't know anyone who plays D&D who has not contributed to 3rd party creators and virtually all of those people play the game using WOTC game material.
If you buy maps or dice or watch videos or use a VTT or anything else you are supporting 3P creators.
I don't think it is, while a rise in 5E popularity has possibly had a positive effect on other games, the market is predominatly 5e-driven and if it fragments I believe it will get substantially smaller overall.
Aldarc
Legend
I wonder how a 3rd Party Publisher like EN Publishing would get greater monetary support from me? 
(A) I jump back on the WotC train and buy every WotC 5e product available in duplicates
OR
(B) I buy a single copy of the Level Up Adventurer's Guide
This is tough, but I suspect that a 3pp like EN Publishing would receive more money from (B) than they would from (A). In fact, I bet that EN Publishing would probably get even more money if I used the money from (A) to buy Level Up products without spending a single nickle or dime on WotC products.
(A) I jump back on the WotC train and buy every WotC 5e product available in duplicates
OR
(B) I buy a single copy of the Level Up Adventurer's Guide
This is tough, but I suspect that a 3pp like EN Publishing would receive more money from (B) than they would from (A). In fact, I bet that EN Publishing would probably get even more money if I used the money from (A) to buy Level Up products without spending a single nickle or dime on WotC products.
You can do whatever you want with your money, and I don't think anyone is entitled to your money except those you choose to send it to. If you choose to boycott WOTC you will hurt 3P creators in the process.
As for whether you have or have not supported more 3pp creators,I have no idea. However, I have been supporting 3p RPG creators for 43 years.
Yet you are doing exactly that in this post. As a point of fact, right here in this post you are using words like "manipulation" to challenge my logic. That is factually gaslighting.
If it was a falsehood it would be, but it is not.
Look on this very forum at theposts from a month ago. People pointed out, very correctly, that the OGL helped WOTC, was responsible for its growth and the growth of the entire community. We grew together! Without that we will all suffer together.
It is as true now as it was when people were saying it earlier this year.
I never said anyone was being "bad". I believe the only time I used the term "bad" was as a qualifier for manipulation, trying to point out the hypocrisy in the argument that it is ok to manipulate people for one goal but not another.
What I have said is it hurts 3P creators. I believe that statement and I stand by it, but I have not said it is "bad".
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Incenjucar
Legend
DMs Guild is not the whole of 3P, and you don't need to buy WotC books to buy 3P. I have spent a total of $0 on WotC 5E products, but I have purchased a number of non-WotC 5E products. If WotC went bankrupt today I could still buy 3P products.
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