D&D 5E Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

[Justice and Rule]

WoTC seems mostly concerned about problematic societal norms, but not about individuals being evil.

I don't remember how Dark Sun worked, but the most future-proof reboot I can think of is to reboot slavery as a pact/bond with the dragon kings.

So basically, everyone has a warlock pact with the dragon kings, except the lowest class get nothing good in return and only bad things from being bonded to their dragon king overlord.

That's... an interesting solution. Also might present an interesting metaphor...

 

[MichaelSomething]

Don't worry. I'm sure the New TSR will step in with a Dark Sun replacement. They have the courage to print what WOTC won't.

 

[overgeeked]

Don't worry. I'm sure the New TSR will step in with a Dark Sun replacement. They have the courage to print what WOTC won't.

I'm honestly surprised it took that long to have a comment like this. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Don't worry. I'm sure the New TSR will step in with a Dark Sun replacement. They have the courage to print what WOTC won't.

Now with 50% more racism!

 

[Gradine]

The answer to the question in the poll is normally yes (though I would still consider some "evil" actions largely unnecessary and non-inclusive to present in a broadly appropriate RPG product).

The question as to whether the presentation of slavery in Dark Sun qualifies as "obviously, explicitly evil, and meant to be fought." Even the former I think is something of a stretch... the latter would necessitate that all Dark Sun PCs must be tasked with overthrowing the entire social order of any given city-state, which... maybe if you had a very specifically presented Adventure, but it would be pretty roundly mocked as railroading if they didn't provide any other options than revolution.

 

[Umbran]

I feel this has to be true. Storytelling is  incredibly limited otherwise. Players and DMs should be trusted to make these decisions for themselves, something much harder to do if corporate life tries to make them for us.

That doesn't seem to resolve the issue.
If players and DMs should make the determination for themselves, isn't the smart thing to let them add it in if they want it, and not put it explicitly into any products?

 

[Umbran]

Q: Is problematic content acceptable in a work if it's presented as obviously and explicitly evil and meant to be fought?

Not a simple yes or no answer, I'm afraid.

For example: let us say that slavery is problematic. If the slavers are clearly analogous to the Roma people, making it explicitly evil and meant to be fought does not make it okay.

Context and details matter.

 

[Staffan]

I suppose the better question here is: what can chattel slavery do that serfdom can't, and why is that specifically important to the setting and game itself?

Enslavement.

Serfdom is primarily a hereditary condition. You become a serf by having serfs for parents. But in Dark Sun, it is fairly common for free people to be enslaved, either through military (raids on villages) or judicial (punishment for crimes, real or trumped-up) means. The Templar class even has the explicit ability to enslave freemen at 7th level (as part of their "pass judgment" ability), and nobles at 15th.

 

[Staffan]

Is content portraying evil acts acceptable? Yes, certainly.
Is doing so a good idea? That's a much harder question.

Of course, the obvious question is about slavery. That's an issue that's extremely sensitive for a lot of people, particularly in the US (here in Sweden we didn't have large-scale slavery on the domestic level – not because of any ethical superiority or anything like that, we tried having a slave colony but it turned out we weren't any good at it). And if you want to appeal to this demographic, you should probably stay away from slavery.

A smaller company than Wizards/Hasbro can of course get away with products appealing to a more narrow audience. Still, it's a bit of a minefield. Putting too much emphasis on the topic runs the risk of attracting the kind of people who think the Imperium of Man in Warhammer 40K are the Good Guys.

 

[Minigiant]

The issue isn't its existence in the work but its focus in the work.