D&D General How would you redo 4e?

[Myrhdraak]

I look forward to it! Thanks for the update.

However, it will require some basic programming skill to adjust it for your own characters and monsters ..... (I am talking Visual Basic level of skill ;-)

 

[dave2008]

However, it will require some basic programming skill to adjust it for your own characters and monsters ..... (I am talking Visual Basic level of skill ;-)

Not my skill set, but my son is a CSE major, so I think I could get him to do it for me!

 

[Undrave]

Another thing I'd keep is all the power sources (I friggin' LOVE the Primal Power Source lore and wish it was in 5e!), and maybe try to bring back Shadow and Elemental... Heck, I'd take care of creating an identity for those two BEFORE crafting the Arcane power source.

Because I'm really tired of Arcane being a codeword for 'whatever BS' and being a free pass to the Wizard doing everything under the sun.

The Wizard should NOT be getting telepathy and telekinesis, dangit!

 

[Aldarc]

IMHO, "bounded accuracy" does not really support the sort of epic fantasy that 4e engages. I think 4e D&D's sense of the fantasy power curve is more equivalent to PF2 or Exalted. This was pretty clear when the designers talked about what sort of fantasy each tier was about.

But yeah when it comes to flavor and themes, I would lean into the Nentir Vale, World Axis, and associated power sources. I would dilute the Arcane power source a bit so it meant something and expand the power sources that directly tied into the World Axis: Elemental/Chaos/Primordial, Shadow, and Fey(wild).

 

[Vaalingrade]

I don't see any value in bringing bounded accuracy in 4e.

4e solved the 'fight themed monsters' issue by making multiple roles of the same species.

And it solved the 'we pretend we can't do math' problem by not caring.

 

[Voadam]

4e's level ascending math means that there is a little more math impact in fighting monsters of higher or lower level than in bounded accuracy and there will be things where the math diverges so much that 20s are needed to hit. So this plus monster roles gives 4e a few more toggles on the combat play experience. Using lower level elites is a bit of a different experience than APL normal monsters to fill out the xp budget of a fight.

4e generally says to level up or redo a monster at the appropriate level (possibly with minion mechanics) rather than just use a monster whose CR is more than five outside of the party's APL.

Putting in bounded accuracy is mostly easy for 4e, take away the treadmill +1/2 level on attacks and defenses. Stat bounded accuracy is a bit trickier to get to for 4e though.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Be sure to put out great adventures to go with it. I bet many of the poor perceptions were formed in part by the early published adventures in 4E's life span.

 

[Undrave]

IMHO, "bounded accuracy" does not really support the sort of epic fantasy that 4e engages. I think 4e D&D's sense of the fantasy power curve is more equivalent to PF2 or Exalted. This was pretty clear when the designers talked about what sort of fantasy each tier was about.

But yeah when it comes to flavor and themes, I would lean into the Nentir Vale, World Axis, and associated power sources. I would dilute the Arcane power source a bit so it meant something and expand the power sources that directly tied into the World Axis: Elemental/Chaos/Primordial, Shadow, and Fey(wild).

I don't see any value in bringing bounded accuracy in 4e.

4e solved the 'fight themed monsters' issue by making multiple roles of the same species.

And it solved the 'we pretend we can't do math' problem by not caring.

Agreed on the bounded accuracy. The power curve is part and parcel of 4e's appeal. I DON'T care to fight the same monsters at level 10 that I did at level 1. And I don't care that the stat blocks isn't an absolute representation of a creature.

I'm perfectly fine if the first time you encounter an Ogre he's a Solo. Then a few levels later, the same Orc (who got away) comes back as an Elite with a friend, then later as part of a group as a regular monster and you finally put him down some more level later when he's just a minion.

 

[Faolyn]

The books definitely give out that vibe and the game does tactical combat so well you want to be doing it all the time. But I played a 4e campaign to 30th level and we had a lot of memorable skill challenges and meaty social encounters that sometimes took up a whole session. But I have to say that while I really liked 4e there was some of the system that needed to be refined and playtested etc. Skill Challenges was one of those sub systems that needed a fair bit of DM activity to work properly.

Oh, I'm sure there were plenty of things in 4e that were useful outside of combat. I'm just saying that the initial PHB and MM really didn't make that obvious.

 

[cbwjm]

I'm perfectly fine if the first time you encounter an Ogre he's a Solo. Then a few levels later, the same Orc (who got away) comes back as an Elite with a friend, then later as part of a group as a regular monster and you finally put him down some more level later when he's just a minion.

None of this would need to change with bounded accuracy.