D&D 4E Anyone playing 4e at the moment?

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

So the end result is building a PC (even with a modicum of optimization, not the crazy OP levels that have PCs hitting on a 2 or 3 for every attack they make (and also sliding the enemy 5 and knocking them prone), etc) that tries to meet the 65% ratio as the game encourages, and then that PC basically autopasses Moderate DCs with the same skill, which is no fun either! It's this paradox that is my criticism: if one wishes to maintain the same math that the game encourages and explicitly spells out, the bulk of the challenge in SCs (ie, the Moderate DCs using primary-stat, trained skills) are no longer challenging.

I usually used Stalker0s version which encourages everyone to participate. You can search for it here on ENworld. It’s a X successes in 3 rounds of rolls model (rolls = # of char in party x 3) and the math seemed to work pretty well.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

What is this "at-level" of which you speak?

Well, as you can have combat encounters of 'level -1' on up through 'level +4' you can also do so with SCs. I mean, it isn't literally called out like "this is absolutely a thing", but it is certainly a thing. I do it all the time. I am also perfectly comfortable to have SCs where the stakes are "someone dies" etc.

 

[darkbard]

Well, as you can have combat encounters of 'level -1' on up through 'level +4' you can also do so with SCs. I mean, it isn't literally called out like "this is absolutely a thing", but it is certainly a thing. I do it all the time. I am also perfectly comfortable to have SCs where the stakes are "someone dies" etc.

Oh, I know, AA! I was making a joke about @Manbearcat continually throwing L+2 and higher SCs our way ... with only 2 PCs.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I’m fascinated that anyone unironically enjoys skill challenges enough to regularly use them. Goes to show there are no wrong ways to play the game!

 

[heretic888]

I’m fascinated that anyone unironically enjoys skill challenges enough to regularly use them. Goes to show there are no wrong ways to play the game!

4E skill challenges have been some of the best RPGing I've ever done. My players absolutely loved them, so much so that I would port them over to other systems we played (although they don't work quite as well as they do in 4E).

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

I’m fascinated that anyone unironically enjoys skill challenges enough to regularly use them. Goes to show there are no wrong ways to play the game!

I find a ton of problems with the way SCs were presented in 4e even up to the end, but having some kind of multiple check, non-arbitrary way to resolve success or failure of non-combat situations is pretty nice.

 

[Joshua Randall]

4E skill challenges have been some of the best RPGing I've ever done. My players absolutely loved them, so much so that I would port them over to other systems we played (although they don't work quite as well as they do in 4E).

mind. Blown.

 

[pemerton]

@darkbard @Manbearcat

When GMing 4e, I don't recall ever using skill challenges above the PCs' level (maybe once or twice early on before I got my feel for the system). I would use complexity as my "toggle".

I've never GMed for only two players, but when GMing for four or five the way I handle the maths issue that darkbard points to is by manipulating the fiction and, thereby, which PC is under pressure. So it is true that the invoker/wizard will never fail an Arcana check - but the sorcerer might!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

@darkbard @Manbearcat

When GMing 4e, I don't recall ever using skill challenges above the PCs' level (maybe once or twice early on before I got my feel for the system). I would use complexity as my "toggle".

I've never GMed for only two players, but when GMing for four or five the way I handle the maths issue that darkbard points to is by manipulating the fiction and, thereby, which PC is under pressure. So it is true that the invoker/wizard will never fail an Arcana check - but the sorcerer might!

You can do that, but it isn't 100% reliable, in most cases. Players are good at changing the situation! Personally I didn't consider complexity to be so much a toggle of difficulty, as a measure of, well, plot complexity. If you want pure difficulty gradients, manipulate the level, it does work. Anyway, I was always more looking for that "you're kinda on the edge of failing, but you have shot." and then there's some slightly mixed success. In this sense SC is a lot like how PbtA works, you WANT 7-9 a lot!

 

[pemerton]

You can do that, but it isn't 100% reliable, in most cases. Players are good at changing the situation!

This is why I prefer social skill challenges - where the GM has more capacity to (re)direct the pressure - over environmental ones.