Picard Season 3

[Ryujin]

Neither would DS9. It found its stride earlier than most Star Trek shows, but not its audience.

Right about the time that TNG ended and those writers were freed-up to move to DS9, if memory serves.

 

[Zardnaar]

Right about the time that TNG ended and those writers were freed-up to move to DS9, if memory serves.

Didn't DS9 rate reasonably alright at the time just not as good as TNG which hot its stride later?

I think in thus scenario TNG gets canceled which probably means DS9 doesn't get made or if it does it doesn't benefit from TNGs experiences.

Bit in some weird alt reality would it's ratings early on kept it on the air? TNG would have. Even savaged but DS9 has a way better season 1.

 

[MarkB]

Didn't DS9 rate reasonably alright at the time just not as good as TNG which hot its stride later?

I think in thus scenario TNG gets canceled which probably means DS9 doesn't get made or if it does it doesn't benefit from TNGs experiences.

Bit in some weird alt reality would it's ratings early on kept it on the air? TNG would have. Even savaged but DS9 has a way better season 1.

DS9 had some highly critical reactions both before and during its first season from fans who hated the idea of a fixed space station instead of a starship. Even back in the day they were vocal, on social media they'd have been drowning out conversations.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Right about the time that TNG ended and those writers were freed-up to move to DS9, if memory serves.

No. I think you're confusing the "finding its stride" with the main plot arc starting. DS9 found its stride either late in S1 or early in S2, depending, which is before TNG finished.

The writing quality doesn't notably increase from S2 to S3, either, I would suggest. Also AFAIK, there was no exodus of writers from TNG to DS9, though perhaps you could say who if there was.

And the Dominion War arc was planned before TNG finished too (and started to be implemented).

Dominion War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What did happen around that time was that Piller, who together with Behr, had created DS9, move off on to VOY. I haven't got all the details to hand, but it seems to me like more writers moved from TNG to VOY, than TNG to DS9. I can look into it further if needed. So if we see a change it's that Behr runs things better than Piller (though is possibly more of a dick to the cast, I don't recall exactly).

DS9 had some highly critical reactions both before and during its first season from fans who hated the idea of a fixed space station instead of a starship. Even back in the day they were vocal, on social media they'd have been drowning out conversations.

That's a really off assumption.

Those fans were loud, but they were wildly outnumbered. I was on the internet back then - they were mostly the same people who hated TNG, too, and who were still saying "TOS was better". They would have been crushed on social media because they were much older - like 20+ years older than people who were open to DS9, and thus would have been way worse and way slower at posting and memeing.

I've still got fanzines from back then (I was 15 in 1993 - some of them are near-professional quality too), and DS9 had plenty of people excited about it - way more than VOY did a couple of years later.

 

[Ryujin]

No. I think you're confusing the "finding its stride" with the main plot arc starting. DS9 found its stride either late in S1 or early in S2, depending, which is before TNG finished.

The writing quality doesn't notably increase from S2 to S3, either, I would suggest. Also AFAIK, there was no exodus of writers from TNG to DS9, though perhaps you could say who if there was.

And the Dominion War arc was planned before TNG finished too (and started to be implemented).

The one that immediately occurs to me is Ron Moore, though that was as supervising producer.

Ronald D. Moore

 

[Zardnaar]

DS9 had some highly critical reactions both before and during its first season from fans who hated the idea of a fixed space station instead of a starship. Even back in the day they were vocal, on social media they'd have been drowning out conversations.

Yeah but ultimately it comes down to ratings. Did DS9 rate OK back in tge day vs season 1 TNG? DS9 expectations were lower as well vs the main show.

 

[MarkB]

Yeah but ultimately it comes down to ratings. Did DS9 rate OK back in tge day vs season 1 TNG? DS9 expectations were lower as well vs the main show.

Yeah, but in this little thought experiment it's about whether those ratings would have been impacted if the more outspoken members of fandom had an easier place to speak out.

 

[ART!]

I think maybe the writers don't understand command: Shaw blames others for his mistakes, and I thought this was a way to make him look lesser-than; but now Riker blames Picard for his own decision (which Picard recommended). Maybe there's a story thread about taking responsibility, and this theme will become stronger as the season progresses.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The one that immediately occurs to me is Ron Moore, though that was as supervising producer.

Ronald D. Moore

He was a major writer for TNG, and he did eventually write a bunch of DS9 stuff, but it was a lot later than that transition point. What is more notable is that when he joined VOY he kind of "bounced off" it because of the writing-room culture. Yet even then, VOY was improving.

 

[Thourne]

I think maybe the writers don't understand command: Shaw blames others for his mistakes, and I thought this was a way to make him look lesser-than; but now Riker blames Picard for his own decision (which Picard recommended). Maybe there's a story thread about taking responsibility, and this theme will become stronger as the season progresses.

I can't shake the feeling that the Riker snap at Picard, was the public excuse to get him off the bridge to find the saboteur.