D&D General Just Eat the Dang Fruit

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I quoted it directly in the post you are responding to. "but having seen me need to roll a save, nobody wants to partake."

This is not an equivocal statement. Because of X, they Y. The OP is directly stating a cause and effect.
Seeing @iserith make a save did cause the other players to decide their characters would not partake, yes. But nowhere does it say that the players had previously said their characters would partake in the first place, therefore the players “changing what their characters would do,” as you put it, is not expressed in the premise. It is entirely possible that the players wouldn’t have had their characters to partake anyway; indeed, I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen PCs eat food offered by an NPC. Moreover, even if seeing iserith make a save did make the other players choose differently than they otherwise would have, so what? If the action is reasonable for the characters to take without that knowledge, who cares that the players had it?
Even if he was wrong, it's still the point he wants to discuss in this post. So treat it as true and discuss it, not jump through hoops trying to avoid answering a simple question.

OP: "The food and drink is offered to my comrades, of course, but having seen me need to roll a save, nobody wants to partake. Does anyone see any issue with this refusal? If so, what are the issues and how do you resolve them. If not, why not?"
I did answer the question. I said no, I don’t see any issue with the refusal.
 

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If one plans to use the trite 'you are betrayed via being offered food and drink so the players will learn to never trust anyone and thus ruin any roleplaying opportunities for the rest of the campaign' card with a character already designated to always blunder into eating fruit... put the poison in the cheese.
I use a Rule Of Two. You can do it once and I won't get paranoid. Walking into a gelatinous cube, eating the poisoned food, accepting the shady merchant offer, sitting on the mimic chair, etc.

Once, and it's great fun! A wonderful way to show off the tropes of D&D. Twice, and I whip out the 10 foot pole and start carrying bags of flour. :D
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Seeing @iserith make a save did cause the other players to decide their characters would not partake, yes. But nowhere does it say that the players had previously said their characters would partake in the first place, therefore the players “changing what their characters would do,” as you put it, is not expressed in the premise. It is entirely possible that the players wouldn’t have had their characters to partake anyway; indeed, I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen PCs eat food offered by an NPC.
Really? That sounds absolutely bizarre to me. If you've already come to the table, refusing to eat the food is just a really odd thing to do--and in cultures where the guest right is of extreme importance, a guest being rude about your hospitality is a major no-no. (Consider the cultures where it is considered rude not to belch or break wind after a meal, because that's how you show you enjoyed it!)

Moreover, even if seeing iserith make a save did make the other players choose differently than they otherwise would have, so what? If the action is reasonable for the characters to take without that knowledge, who cares that the players had it?
First: I don't actually accept that this action is reasonable, for the reasons given above. Blanket refusal without any reason given is, at the very least, something that should require an effort to save face or avoid giving offense. And unless they really do already have an honest reason for not doing it, passing off a fake reason sounds like some kind of bluff-type check to me. It's certainly not something I would expect to go unremarked.

Second: I believe that intent matters with an action. Seeing someone else make a save and then suddenly everyone is putting as much distance as possible between themselves and that fruit? Yeah, that's kind of a dead giveaway that the only reason it's being done is because the players gained knowledge the characters couldn't possibly have. When possible, I prefer that such decisions have a reasonable relationship to character choices. That doesn't mean a perfect mapping, because we accept abstractions. (E.g., I have no problem with "daily powers" for non-magical characters, because I accept that that is an abstraction to enable useful game design space, and because I accept things like "bennies" and other meta-currencies.) But when one is very literally predicating a purely roleplayed action (such as eating or not eating fruit) specifically on the fact that a gameplay interaction occurred, that bothers me; unlike the meta-currency case, where there's at least a tenuous relationship involved, there's no relationship involved here.

Want to roleplay being eagle-eyed and trying to catch the signs that your friend had some gastric distress? Do so! Actually take the effort to give yourself a justification. That effort isn't hard, and odds are good at least one person in the party is more circumspect and chary-eyed than Iserith's fruit-eater. Just...don't pretend like "I saw <Player> make a saving throw! I don't want to do the thing that made him make a saving throw!" is in any way the same as, "I saw Binro nearly throw up for a moment before things settled down, I'm not sure I want to eat that fruit!" The former has no relationship between the input (<Player> made a saving throw) and the output (<My Character> refuses to eat), while the latter does relate its input (I-as-<My Character> saw Binro nearly throw up) to its output (I-as-<My Character> refuse to eat.)
 

Panzeh

Explorer
I don't think this is a trap you can use unless you've spent time having characters eat 'on screen' in situations where it isn't poisoned- otherwise it does feel kinda arbitrary if you actually make them do it, and obviously suspicious if you don't.
 

My players (as were their characters) were pretty suspicious of eating at the fortress of noble vampire in Thay (A Mission to Thay: Nethwatch Keep written by @GuardianLurker who doesn't appear to be on Enworld anymore).

Their vampire host assured them that she had made great efforts to ensure the food was made to their liking and that their fears although were understandable were unnecessary given the invitation was one seeking diplomacy and cooperation. Everyone ate, except for the paladin who satisfied his hunger pains later with an iron ration.

I will admit it was an interesting and fun roleplaying moment experiencing the player/character mistrust and hesitation.
 

Just to make sure, you are now claiming that one character knows the DM called for another character to make a save?

I think we all know that the character doesn't know that. So the answer to your question in this particular case is EVERYONE INCLUDING YOU.

Why are you trying so hard to avoid answering the OP's question? He put out a scenario where he says because of the roll, the others didn't partake. Not anything about they were unsure, or already suspicious. He's pretty clear in his writing. That's what they created the thread to discuss. At best you are saying "I think you misread your table so I won't give an answer" - how is that adding to the discussion?

Why not just assume in good faith the OP knows better than you what happened at his own table, and answer the question they are asking instead of trying to dodge it?

If you look upthread, I already answered the OP's question. It's up to the player to decide how their character thinks, speaks, and acts. Full stop.
 

The do-you don't-you drink/eat the poison is an unsatisfying method for me personally. It does not match up to what we have seen/read thematically. If something is poisoned, I'd prefer to gloss over the decision-making process and go straight to the required traitor's verbal exposition with the poison reveal and have the players make the saving throws for their characters. It would have to be an unassuming scenario and that way one can just skip ahead instead of planting the seed in the players' minds and thus thrusting them to choose between metagaming or roleplaying.

The do-you don't-you drink eat the refreshments/food is much more satisfying when there is no poison and they're sitting with someone whom they know is untrustworthy, like the example I posted above.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
I don't get the sad desperation some DMs have to pull off stuff like this by strong-arming the players into doing something that they, in-genre know is stupid. Not only is it trying to pull off a magic trick everyone always knows the secret to, but... you're going to end up having a break down like XPtoLevel3 did when they all just make their saves anyway.
 

I don't get the sad desperation some DMs have to pull off stuff like this by strong-arming the players into doing something that they, in-genre know is stupid. Not only is it trying to pull off a magic trick everyone always knows the secret to, but... you're going to end up having a break down like XPtoLevel3 did when they all just make their saves anyway.

I feel sad desperation comes from asking the players if their characters eat the poison food thus forcing players of having to come up with inane ways why their characters don't eat the food meanwhile penalizing the roleplayers amongst them with a poison save.

EDIT: As for making their save...be creative with your poisons.
 


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