D&D General Kobold Press Going Down a Dark Road

[Reef]

The problem is, the culture has shifted away from mixing similar games into everyone playing the new thing, because that's where the big companies think the money is. There will always be homebrewers and DIY gamers, but the industry is I think moving towards something easier to monetize for a given company, as opposed to the industry as a whole.

Has it really though? Even though 5e was the new thing, lots of gamers stayed with 3e, or 4e, or some version of OSR. Lots of us did move to 5e, but that's because many of us do feel it was better. Not because it was new. If new was all that mattered, each edition would have won over the previous. And when One comes out, we'll look at it, of course. But there's no guarantee we just won't keep running from our 2014 books, newness or not. But maybe that make me and my group outliers? Or just old...heh.

And I'm not sure the move to monetize the game is any different now. I'm sure TSR would have been all over it the same way if they had the option.

 

[Bolares]

Ask @Parmandur .

ok... @Parmandur what?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Those were the comparisons the D&D executive producer used when asked about the subject.

yup... but some people here insisit it isn't 3.5 or 1e/2e its just a new splat book...

They never promised a completelly new edition,

nor did I say they did... I said what I wanted

they are marketing it as an update. The only one saying otherwise is Kobold Press

 

[GMforPowergamers]

You shouldn't have to convert anything if its still the same edition.

again this (both kobold and 1d&D) so far looks like a new edition the way 1e and 2e did and the way 3e and 3.5 did

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Many people seem to have missed my point, so I'll attempt to be as clear and factual as possible.

In the case of both the 4e and 5e core books, WotC has revised them via errata. Any currently published hard copy you buy of the 5e PHB or DMG has different content than the 2014 versions (and the Beyond versions continue to be revised regardless of when you purchased them) , and any pdf of the 4e core books you buy will be of the heavily revised versions, not of the original.*

It is a fact that the original 4e and 5e core books are the only ones WotC has ceased to make available.

And yes, I have copies, but the new friends I will want to have play original 5.0 with me 5 or 10 years from now will not have access to those copies.

 That is the problem. New players will be able to buy perpetually available original OD&D, 1e, 2e, 3.0, and 3.5 (as they should), but they will not be able to buy original 4e or 5e, which hampers the ability of players who prefer those two editions to play them, because they can't get new books for their new players.

I cannot see anything in these statements that is not simply factual (other than my prediction based on treatment of 4e that WotC will not in the future decide to offer 2014 5e pdfs).

Now obviously, if one personally isn't interested in those versions, this won't matter to them, just like it probably didn't matter when we couldn't buy pdfs of any of those other versions. But I would like it if we could all pull together in support of others' ability to continue to purchase the copies of their preferred editions that will allow them to introduce new players to them.

*Let me here clarify that it is not the nature of the changes (some of which were already how I ran things, or clarifications that seemed superfluous but maybe are helpful for new players, or (in the case of 4e) mechanical changes that I'd be onboard with), but the fact of them that I'm criticizing.

 

[Oofta]

The problem is, the culture has shifted away from mixing similar games into everyone playing the new thing, because that's where the big companies think the money is. There will always be homebrewers and DIY gamers, but the industry is I think moving towards something easier to monetize for a given company, as opposed to the industry as a whole.

I've been playing D&D pretty much since it's inception. While I've borrowed plenty ideas and lore from other editions, I've never done nor seen much mixing and matching of the actual rules. A handful of house rules is common, but if there was ever this "mixing similar games" it wasn't widespread in my experience.

 

[Pedantic]

ok... @Parmandur what?

This is an argument about how squishy "compatibility" is. The extreme polar positions are, roughly, "as long as the proficiency numbers remain the same, it is compatible" on the one hand, and "if any change has to be made to older supplemental material to apply it to new content, it is not compatible" on the other.

Disingenuous arguments abound on both sides, from "you could use either the 2014 or later versions of a class!" on the one, as if 3e and Pathfinder monks ever realistically appeared at the same table, or "any change to subclass feature timing invalidates all compatibility" on the other. Compatibility is mostly in the eye of the beholder, and above all else, more marketing speak by WotC than a real piece of design direction.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I cannot see anything in these statements that is not simply factual (other than my prediction based on treatment of 4e that WotC will not in the future decide to offer 2014 5e pdfs).

I don't know what the errata looks like for the 2014 book... but if they include all of the 1d&D changes that is a lot more then errata

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I've been playing D&D pretty much since it's inception. While I've borrowed plenty ideas and lore from other editions, I've never done nor seen much mixing and matching of the actual rules. A handful of house rules is common, but if there was ever this "mixing similar games" it wasn't widespread in my experience.

I have heard stories of 1e/2e games taking whole ideas and classes.

I have in some cases seen (and even done) some cross over house rules, and I see alot of "updating of old adventures" but not much direct mix and match

 

[Micah Sweet]

I've been playing D&D pretty much since it's inception. While I've borrowed plenty ideas and lore from other editions, I've never done nor seen much mixing and matching of the actual rules. A handful of house rules is common, but if there was ever this "mixing similar games" it wasn't widespread in my experience.

It certainly was for me in the TSR days, and many other people I knew. 3.0 forward became the age of "new is always better".