D&D General Kobold Press Going Down a Dark Road

[Micah Sweet]

Ok I'm confused... but isn't this how characters are made via Tasha's now??

EDIT: So is Tasha's a new edition?

In a lot of ways, Tasha's changed the game significantly. One of the reasons I feel people make the arguments for compatibility is that they're assuming a base including everything prior to 1D&D, as opposed to actually comparing the 2014 and 2024 PH.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Ok I'm confused... but isn't this how characters are made via Tasha's now??

EDIT: So is Tasha's a new edition?

as I understood tasha's (1 it;'s optional but it already causes mini half edition wars here) you could pick where your stats went to, but the Mtn dwarf monk could move teh 2 +2s to dex and wis... then could switch those bonus weapon and armor profs into tools and languages.

 

[Oofta]

Ok name something else that had continued growth for 10 years that can be contributed to it's advertisement on a single tv show? I'm seriously drawing a blank but there have to be other examples or is the argument D&D 5e a singular anomaly in this case and that's more likely than it's good game design that has resonated and continues to resonate with a large number of people who play it.?

There are a lot of things that led to 5E's success. I'm sure there are other TTRPGs that, given the right confluence of events, could have also seen an explosion of popularity.

But you don't see the kind of sustained growth we've seen with a game people don't enjoy playing. If advertising and name recognition were all that was required we'd be sipping new Coke while riding our Segway listening to our Zune and getting the weather forecast from our google glasses. Meanwhile we're excited to hear about the latest model year of the Edsel while snacking on Wow! Chips. Because of the chips we need to get home soon, but that's fine because we have the latest installment of The Golden Compass movie on laser disk.

Name recognition, tradition, nostalgia, just plain momentum can do a lot. But a polished turd is still a turd. D&D 5E happens to be a fun game and pastime for a lot of people. It can't be that for everyone, nothing can be.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

what else do you expect us to discus in a thread about systems?

Ok Fair cop Guv'

Should I talk about the work I put into house ruleing 4e manuvers in compairing black flag to 1d&D? or maybe when I expand the background features to more like world of darkness backgrounds?
I mean those are cool house rules to talk about, but I don't know what they have to do with what system I put them in...

Heck I keep pushing TORG... I could take most if not all my D&D house rule and with a ltitle effort move them over to TORG

Cool

I wasn't thinking of exsisiting characters... I don't have a lot of experience with porting a game over from 1 edition/version to another... unless it is to restart the game.

again my example is someone says "5e" and so someone comes with a character from the 2014phb and another comes with a character from the 2024 PHB (yes not out yet)

They won't they will ask "which ruleset" or make it at the table like polite people should, at least for the next year or two. In ten years time few outside this forum (if we are still alive) will know or care and in twenty years every one and their dog will be using online tools or they will have more pressing matters to consider.

 

[Imaro]

I'm sorry did pop culture zeitguiest make you think it was a 1 off on 1 show? this isn't "big bang mentioned D&D in season 4 episode 6" this is a ongoing 5 or 6 year series that a reoccurring main theme is D&D... and it isn't alone. So no not a "Single stand alone advertisement"

by the way when econimies turn down or in general there are emergencies games and toys are the thing that keep selling (well broadly entertainment so movies and sports things too) and when covid hit stranger things was huge and look at that the big boom hit...
oh it also is a HUGE nestolgia for the 80's (I would argue that was a contributing factor not just in D7d but in stranger things that also then fed into D&D)
mean while the concept of "lets plays (both video game and some how TTRPGs) have taken off and we had the luck that one of teh biggest moved from pathfinder to 5e.


it wasn't one stand alone thing... it was the reverse of a perfect storm where everything came togather to make something sell... The fact that 5e was already the compramise edition to bring 4e and PF players both back helped


Now no edition of D&D has been a flop ever, not basic, not 1e, not even my least favorite 3.5... D&D the name sells no matter what and never has there been a true stinker system.

IF the FATAL mechanic was rebranded as D&D the name alone would sell some and all this boom would sell some but the qualify of the worst rpg ever would have still made it fail... but any edition of D&D, or any other game... even ones that have MASSIVE mechanical flaws (shout out to RIfts, I love you worts and all)0 would have soared in this environment.

Season 4 of Big Bang theory was in 2010-2011... That's during the early part of 4e's lifecycle... and I remember them featuring 4e products heavily so shouldn't it have given 4e a boost?

As for nostalgia... what else associated with the 80's is selling like D&D 5e? Seriously if there's so much nostalgia for the time period why aren't Transformers, GI Joe, Thundercats, He-Man, etc. exploding in popularity in the same way?

I'm not speaking to D&D being a flop... I'm speaking to ten years of steady growth... what other edition has accomplished that?

Lol... so you admit there's a level of rules design needed for D&D to thrive in the way it has... and you admit FATAL couldn't achieve it but any and every other game could. So the cut off line is FATAL... why?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

They won't they will ask "which ruleset" or make it at the table like polite people should,

right... because they are two different versions of the game (we used to call versions editions but now that is a bad word)

 

[Imaro]

In a lot of ways, Tasha's changed the game significantly. One of the reasons I feel people make the arguments for compatibility is that they're assuming a base including everything prior to 1D&D, as opposed to actually comparing the 2014 and 2024 PH.

Why are we limiting it to only the PHB? Not saying you're wrong but also not agreeing the game shouldn't be looked at in it's entirety at this point in time.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

no it doesn't...

5e grew in a huge boom when D&D got brought back into the zeitgeist of popular culture... there is no reason to believe that exact same boom would not have happened if the rules of 2e, 3e, or 4e were in place when the pop culture thing happened.

I can't see 4e or 3e raising to that kind of popularity. 5e in its essence is more friendly to beginners as the rules are less overwhelming.

That at least is my experience from introducing dozens of students and other people into the hobby.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Disingenuous arguments abound on both sides, from "you could use either the 2014 or later versions of a class!"

There is nothing disingenuous about this.

But what folks are actually pointing out is that you can use supplemental subclasses with either version, and any new subclasses with either version, which is true, as far as available info indicates.

They are revising the classes, so you’ll have the easiest time using the new version of anything that is being revised, but that’s no different from Tasha’s revising the Bladesinger, other than scale.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Season 4 of Big Bang theory was in 2010-2011... That's during the early part of 4e's lifecycle...

I don't know if they actually did in that series (but I wouldn't be suprised) I just made up numbers there.

and I remember them featuring 4e products heavily so shouldn't it have given 4e a boost?

and I am sure it did... I NEVER said that prev editions didn't get a shot in the arm from those sorts of things... but THIS time they all lined up.

As for nostalgia... what else associated with the 80's is selling like D&D 5e?

Tansformers and GI Joe... my little poney, full house and roseann (maybe those last two are 90's not 100% sure) night court, quantum leap....

Seriously if there's so much nostalgia for the time period why aren't Transformers, GI Joe, Thundercats, He-Man, etc. exploding in popularity in the same way?

um we have had 3 diffrent heman cartoons in teh last 5 years, the toy isle at walmart carries transformers Gi Joe and Heman next to roblox and fortenight... and if you go back 10 years they did not (I know cause they didn't exist in mass sale when my nephew was a kid but they do now)

Why didn't Thundercats take off? Shrug? I have no idea tthey tried but it didin't... I think it SHOULD though.

I'm not speaking to D&D being a flop... I'm speaking to ten years of steady growth... what other edition has accomplished that?

none, but no other edition had this leveel of push and nostilgia along with the only lock down in D&Ds life span (maybe any living persons life span) along with the system

Lol... so you admit there's a level of rules design needed for D&D to thrive in the way it has... and you admit FATAL couldn't achieve it but any and every other game could. So the cut off line is FATAL... why?

i cut it at fatal to be funny since it got labled the worst RPG ever... there was another that had that title before hand called Cinabar... I don't think that would have worked either... now where the line is may be uzzy but it is FAR from any edition of D&D. Rifts is a super complex web of hard to understand rules and bad issues. I think it's JUST on the side where it would ahve taken off, 10 other posters may put it on the other side of that line... but I doubt mayb would put World of Darkness, TORG, Savage WOrld, or Fate anywhere near that line