D&D General Kobold Press Going Down a Dark Road

[teitan]

Really? More people have downloaded the playtest documents in the first few months than in the entire D&D Next playtest. The surveys are getting something like 40 THOUSAND responses.

Or, to put it in more perspective:

More People Test One D&D Origins Playtest Than D&D Next

WotC has announced that more people have playtested the first One D&D playtest than the number of people who playtested the entirety of the D&D Next playtest 10 years ago, which led to the release of D&D 5E. The number of people who playtested D&D Next, according to the credits in the 5E...

www.enworld.org

I'm not really sure how much more enthusiastic we could actually be.

Downloads aren’t a measure of enthusiasm but a measure of curiosity. When there are ongoing changes people look to see those continuing changes. Response to those changes had been tepid at best. That’s like saying response to 4e was better than 3.5 because 4e initially sold better than 3e but we know later print runs of the book showed rapid decline in sales.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I can't see 4e or 3e raising to that kind of popularity.

I don't see why? all teh WotC editions are pretty simple rroll d20 get high good... 3e had more math imbalance and both 4e and 3e had bigger numbers to track, but at the end of the day it's really the same concepts

5e in its essence is more friendly to beginners as the rules are less overwhelming.

if being easier is all it takes FATE would out sell 3very edition of D&D

That at least is my experience from introducing dozens of students and other people into the hobby.

in my experence 4e and 5e are easier then 2e and 3e(3.5/pf) but new players learned all the same

 

[teitan]

I know my group is not sold on it yet, but is that a common thought?

It’s been tepid from the hashtags and YouTube videos. That was before the OGL fiasco.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Downloads aren’t a measure of enthusiasm

100% this, my friends and I are very up in the air on it (some like some parts more then others) but atleast 4 or 5 of us downloaded each one

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It’s been tepid from the hashtags and YouTube videos. That was before the OGL fiasco.

maybe it's because I am here more often then other places, but people argue how popular it is, so our tepid responce I thought was an outlier...maybe not

 

[teitan]

It took a entirely different approach to many of the classes. But trying to define these things (or correcting others) will never have a real answer. Was Skills and Powers D&D 2.25? 2.5? Essentials was along the same lines. Just a supplement? Who cares. The point is that 1E through all of 2E was basically the same game, modified. When 3.0 was released it a pretty dramatic departure in mechanics, style, and structure; 3.5 was an incremental change.

The only real difference I see is that Essentials and the aforementioned S&P is that Essentials could be used as it's own standalone game that didn't require the existing 4E material to play. It was likely more akin to what they would have released for 4E if it hadn't been pushed out the door before the dev team felt it was ready.

Skills & Powers was a whole other thing. It was more like Unearthed Arcana for 3.5 than anything and the revised core rulebooks weren’t a huge change from the original printings rules wise, mostly a refresh with lesser quality artwork and weaker, harder on the eyes layout. Skills & Powers wasn’t a core or needed part of the game while Essentials was the same game presented differently so more akin to a different edition of Shadowrun 1e to 3e where they made some overhauls and rewrote the books but it played the same.

 

[teitan]

maybe it's because I am here more often then other places, but people argue how popular it is, so our tepid responce I thought was an outlier...maybe not

Here it’s not as lukewarm. Here some don’t see the difference between feats being optional and having a feat that is ASI instead of taking a feat… yes mathematically it’s the same but mechanically it’s WOTC removing the decision from the DM.

 

[teitan]

I don't see why? all teh WotC editions are pretty simple rroll d20 get high good... 3e had more math imbalance and both 4e and 3e had bigger numbers to track, but at the end of the day it's really the same concepts

if being easier is all it takes FATE would out sell 3very edition of D&D

in my experence 4e and 5e are easier then 2e and 3e(3.5/pf) but new players learned all the same

3e has a major flaw that hinder it becoming massive in popularity like 5e. 4e has the same one. System mastery. Both are so complex in their mathematics and designed with system mastery in mind, that you are almost encouraged to build a game breaking character as a reward, that it can be discouraging to new people. It’s also overwhelming. 5e is simple and remains simple. That’s also the benefit that it and 1e had over all other editions that let them be popular, they didn’t/don’t have a ton of materials to buy and play with. You have your core books and a small, small handful of additional optional materials. I hope 1D&D doesn’t get away from that model but with 5e increasing its supplement count the last few years I could see it getting out of hand in 4 years.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why are we limiting it to only the PHB? Not saying you're wrong but also not agreeing the game shouldn't be looked at in it's entirety at this point in time.

Because the second is a direct replacement for the first, and I think a lot of folks will see it from that perspective.

 

[Clint_L]

Downloads aren’t a measure of enthusiasm but a measure of curiosity. When there are ongoing changes people look to see those continuing changes. Response to those changes had been tepid at best. That’s like saying response to 4e was better than 3.5 because 4e initially sold better than 3e but we know later print runs of the book showed rapid decline in sales.

How do you measure “tepid”? It hasn’t seemed tepid at all, to me. Tepid seems like a subjective judgment; I am seeing an extraordinarily high degree of engagement. Curiosity and enthusiasm are related concepts, after all. Folks are clearly interested and engaged enough to preview the materials and give extensive feedback, most of which has apparently been positive.