D&D General Kobold Press Going Down a Dark Road

[Parmandur]

You can't in one breath tell me that's what WotC is doing and in the next say the bolded. They are mutually exclusive. I'm saying that they should target both. If they are only targeting teens, then they are not doing what I am saying.

They are not mutually exclusive, at all: targeting a product towards one group does not necessitate excluding others. Toy Story was a movie targeted at children, but it was not excluding other people st all.

 

[Maxperson]

They are not mutually exclusive, at all: targeting a product towards one group does not necessitate excluding others. Toy Story was a movie targeted at children, but it was not excluding other people st all.

You're just making my point for me. I'm saying that it needs to be targeted to both groups. You keep saying that targeting towards one group and merely including some stuff for the other is the same. It's not even close. What I'm saying is mutually exclusive with what you are saying. You don't get to warp my position into yours and then claim that they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[mamba]

Unless you give us specific examples for what say a 15 year old would like but a 40 year old would not, and vice versa, this is largely meaningless.

So show us where WotC is focusing on the teens and neglecting older players, because I am not seeing it / do not believe you can break this down by age groups

 

[Parmandur]

You're just making my point for me. I'm saying that it needs to be targeted to both groups. You keep saying that targeting towards one group and merely including some stuff for the other is the same. It's not even close. What I'm saying is mutually exclusive with what you are saying. You don't get to warp my position into yours and then claim that they are not mutually exclusive.

They are not mutually exclusive: interest in fantasy adventure make-believe games is not a zero sum game between age groups. You can make something aiming for a teen audience and make it attractive to other audiences: Hollywood does it all the time, and WotC has been doing it since before they bought TSR.

 

[John Lloyd1]

Unless you give us specific examples for what say a 15 year old would like but a 40 year old would not, and vice versa, this is largely meaningless.

So show us where WotC is focusing on the teens and neglecting older players, because I am not seeing it / do not believe you can break this down by age groups

I was about to write the same thing, as someone in the 50+ bracket. Does glam rock count? Or something inspired by Miyazaki (i.e. Kiki's delivery service)? Simpler rules?

I'm not sure what it looks like.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Setting aside, for a moment, the rather explicit ageism in this whole discussion, and the likely selection/sampling/confirmation biases involved in coming to the idea that the upcoming game design doesn't interest a particular age group...

The argument for a product "for older gamers" largely becomes an argument that WotC should do what they have done before. It is an argument for retreading material and maintaining the status quo, and against innovation and new things.

It is also an argument putting short term income against maintaining long-term viability. The issue isn't that, in 2024 older gamers won't spend money. It is that gamers apparently age out of the hobby, and will stop spending sooner regardless of what the game looks like.

If gamers age out around 60 years old, then courting a 50-year-old gamer is courting 10 years of income, while courting a 20-year-old gamer is courting 40 years of income.

And, we can also note that (to use the vernacular names for the cohorts), Gen-X is a smaller generation than the ones who have come after. Even if these older people have more disposable income (which is arguable - younger folks seem to have money for videogames, which aren't cheap), you can make up for that with volume.

"Aging out" of the hobby is what often happens when gamers finish school, and the demands of work and family means that they no longer have the time and opportunity to commit to regular role-playing sessions. This tends to happen around the age of 25-30. Someone who is still gaming at 50 is past all that, and will likely keep gaming until they are no longer physically or mentally able.

So the average 50 year old gamer is more likely to be gaming for many more years than the average 20 year old gamer. The real reason to court 20y olds rather than 50y olds is that non-gamer 50y olds already have other interests and are difficult to entice to try something new, while 20y olds are still experimenting with how they most enjoy spending their free time.

 

[Maxperson]

They are not mutually exclusive: interest in fantasy adventure make-believe games is not a zero sum game between age groups. You can make something aiming for a teen audience and make it attractive to other audiences: Hollywood does it all the time, and WotC has been doing it since before they bought TSR.

I can't think of a single instance of Hollywood successfully doing it. Toy Story comes close, but for the most part things aimed at kids are just made tolerable with a few adult jokes. Most adults wouldn't go see them on their own, though. They take their kids and hope that Hollywood puts some stuff in for them to make it endurable, and Hollywood fails at even that a lot.

 

[Parmandur]

I can't think of a single instance of Hollywood successfully doing it. Toy Story comes close, but for the most part things aimed at kids are just made tolerable with a few adult jokes. Most adults wouldn't go see them on their own, though. They take their kids and hope that Hollywood puts some stuff in for them to make it endurable, and Hollywood fails at even that a lot.

...?
You may have heard of Star Wars or the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

It's literally Hollywood's business model.

 

[Parmandur]

I can't think of a single instance of Hollywood successfully doing it. Toy Story comes close, but for the most part things aimed at kids are just made tolerable with a few adult jokes. Most adults wouldn't go see them on their own, though. They take their kids and hope that Hollywood puts some stuff in for them to make it endurable, and Hollywood fails at even that a lot.

Thisnis the model Hollywood has been successfully chasing for decades:

"...Lucas defined how he imagined Star Wars’ audience, even in 1977:

"It’s a film for 12-year-olds. This is what we stand for. You’re about to enter the real world. You’re moving away from your parents. You’re probably scared, you don’t know what’s going to happen. Here’s what you should pay attention to: Friendships, honesty, trust, doing the right thing. Living on the light side, avoiding the dark side."

George Lucas: ‘Star Wars’ Is a ‘Film for 12-Year-Olds’

George Lucas took a break from making snow angels in his Disney billions to make an appearance at “Star Wars Celebration 2017” in Orlando.

observer.com

 

[Maxperson]

...?
You may have heard of Star Wars or the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

It's literally Hollywood's business model.

Neither Star Wars nor Superhero movies are aimed kids. Star Wars is aimed at adults, with some things thrown in for kids they way kids movies throw some things in for adults. Comics are literally aimed at all ages and actually more so adults than kids when it comes to the movies.