D&D (2024) They butchered the warlock in the new packet

[Vaalingrade]

why did they take fireball off the fiend list and put fear in it's place?!?
Also why blight over Fire shield?
and then they replaced Hallow with incest plague!?!?

my 9th level fiend lock loses access to hallow entirely unless I missed a rule.

I... I think they misconstrued who it was the classically sent blights and insect plagues...

 

[Clint_L]

With more spell slots they don't need the short rest recharge, but the highest level spell slots are very much delayed compared to the old warlock.

I think this is a huge change, and by far the thing that will impact how they actually play.

In campaigns like mine, we seldom have more than one combat encounter per session because we emphasize role play and story. So being a half-caster turns into a huge nerf to warlock power. Right now they are eldritch blast plus a few bombs they can drop pretty much every encounter. With this change, they will still be eldritch blast (or melee, for hex blade) plus a greater variety of utility spells they can use as needed. They become more flexible but much less powerful, and I don't think players are going to like that.

In the current design, Warlocks feel like powerful but narrowly focused casters. This turns them into mediocre but more versatile casters, who will need to rely on eldritch blast even more heavily.

It kind of turns them into Goth rangers, with eldritch blast instead of a bow.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Ii have three warlocks thaat I have low level character sheets for, I think I want to try this and see what they look like... I have to ask how you handled the celestial pact since I have 1 fiend, 1 fey, and 1 hexblade

Sure thing! The Fiend goes from this:

FIEND PACT
Fiend Expanded Spells
Spell Level Spells
1st burning hands, command
2nd blindness/deafness, scorching ray
3rd fireball, stinking cloud
ETC
Dark One’s Blessing. Starting at 1st level, when you reduce a hostile creature to 0 HP...
Dark One’s Own Luck. Starting at 6th level, you can call on your patron to alter fate...
ETC

to this:

Fiend
3RD LEVEL: PATRON SPELLS
FIEND SPELLS
Warlock Level Spells
3rd Burning Hands, Command
5th Scorching Ray, Suggestion
9th Fear, Stinking Cloud
ETC
3RD LEVEL: DARK ONE’S BLESSING. When you reduce an enemy to 0 HP or an enemy drops to 0 HP within 5 ft of you...
6TH LEVEL: DARK ONE’S OWN LUCK. You can call on your fiendish patron...
ETC

So the Celestial goes from this:

CELESTIAL PACT
Celestial Expanded Spells
Spell Level Spells
1st cure wounds, guiding bolt
2nd flaming sphere, lesser restoration
3rd daylight, revivify
ETC
Bonus Cantrips. At 1st level, you learn the light and sacred flame cantrips...
Healing Light. At 1st level, you gain the ability to channel celestial energy to heal wounds. You have a pool of d6s that you spend to fuel this healing...
Radiant Soul. Starting at 6th level, your link to the Celestial allows you to...
ETC

to this:

Celestial
3RD LEVEL: PATRON SPELLS
CELESTIAL SPELLS
3rd Light, Sacred Flame
3rd Cure Wounds, Guiding Bolt
5th Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration
9th Daylight, Revivify
ETC
3RD LEVEL: HEALING LIGHT. You gain the ability to channel celestial energy to heal wounds. You have a pool of d6s that you spend to fuel this healing...
6TH LEVEL: RADIANT SOUL. Your link to the Celestial allows you to...
ETC

Hope that helps!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

why did they take fireball off the fiend list and put fear in it's place?!?
Also why blight over Fire shield?
and then they replaced Hallow with incest plague!?!?

my 9th level fiend lock loses access to hallow entirely unless I missed a rule.

Just ignore it. You should consider all spells to be "THIS spell, unless you chose another instead". Just don't be greedy/OP about it.

 

[mellored]

And it should stop both of these.

You want 5e to stop being 5e?

Not sure i can help you with that...

 

[Bolares]

The idea of combining all the "use X spell" sounds great until you realize you might have wanted 2 3rd level ones but you can't take the same level twice.

I think that restriction should be only for 6th+ level spells

 

[Undrave]

The class wasn’t broken. On the contrary, it was easily the best-designed class in the game, so much so that everyone and their mother based all their homebrew classes’ progression structures on it.

I even made a Warlock patron to simulate a Wizard! the Living Library! The frame is just that fun.

I know they can. But, I swear, when I DM for people playing Warlocks, if feels like all they ever do is Eldritch Blast! And people complain about a Fighter and his sword!

How’s that an issue? Some people apparently like the ‘I swing my sword’ Fighter (I’ve been told that repeatedly). I think the problem with the Warlock is that people have a certain expectation how a Spellcaster class should play and the Warlock rejects that model so they reflexively don’t like it, instead of playing to its strength. You can't nova but you got tons of reliable aspects to your class.

relying on short rests is broken, I much prefer the new version which does not

Short rest isn't broken in itself.

EDIT - honestly, its mostly because they're a victim of the assumed-adventure-day that they based all the math around and failed to hold true in reality. Its frustrating.

Short rest classes > Long rest classes

I also like per encounter, with some dailies.

But having some classes on short and others on long just doesn't work too well.

Yah well, apparently 4e made them all feel too samey and everybody a Wizard... I swear, we’re gonna see WOTC re-invent 4e at some point in the future. They’ll put it on parchment colored background and all the neckbeards who complained about 4e will hail it as a genius design…

 

[mamba]

No. Keeping everything on the same recharge rate is boring. Again, people complained 4e was same-y, how would this not be significantly more so?

we simply disagree, I see not how this has any relevance to boring / exciting, it simply means everyone is on the same schedule instead of the party resting because one out of 5 players who is on a different resource schedule needs to. In fact that sounds more boring to me.

Again, If you’ve cleaned up the cave, the length of rest is irrelevant because you can just go back to town and recover during downtime.

Precisely. That is why the long rest is not a problem. You have time to clear the cave and time to rest. With the short rest you have time for neither

 

[mamba]

Sure, so more classes should have more things that recover on a short rest.

Can go either way really. Everyone on short rest or everyone on long rest. I prefer everyone on long rest, as it is more flexible wrt what resources I spend when throughout the day

 

[Charlaquin]

I think this is a huge change, and by far the thing that will impact how they actually play.

In campaigns like mine, we seldom have more than one combat encounter per session because we emphasize role play and story. So being a half-caster turns into a huge nerf to warlock power. Right now they are eldritch blast plus a few bombs they can drop pretty much every encounter.

For the record, “eldritch blast plus a few bombs they can drop pretty much every encounter” is also how 2014 warlocks play when the 6-8 encounter with 2-3 short rest adventuring day guidelines are closely followed. That’s their intended play pattern. Most of the time, they use their cantrips and the spells they can cast for free from their Invocations. About once per encounter, they can spend a spell slot to drop a big bomb. Some encounters they might not need to, some they might spend as many as two. But it’s their big-impact moment, much like a fighter using their action surge.

It kind of turns them into Goth rangers, with eldritch blast instead of a bow.

Goth rangers with eldritch blast instead of a bow is the intended play pattern (well, ranged fighters, since they follow fighter extra attack progression). They’re the magic equivalent of the “simple fighter.”