D&D (2024) I like the new Warlock

[Charlaquin]

Well man, obviously if this UA gets overwhelmingly negative feedback they want to go ahead and leave open the possibility of backtracking.

It doesn’t take overwhelmingly negative feedback, it only takes under 80% satisfaction. And I don’t think it’s going to hit that 80% mark, so I don’t think it’s a done deal that short rest recharge is out.

But they are saying based off feedback used to make the changes, this seems to be what people want. Like, you're arguing something silly here. WotC THINKS that having prime resources refresh on short rest is no bueno. And if, for some reason, their old data is wrong — which they leave open as a valid possibility — they'll revise back to the old way.

I don’t doubt their data. Again, we’ve known for a long time that a lot of groups have problems with the warlock’s (and monk’s) short rest recovery, and of course WotC wants to address that. I don’t think their minds are made up that switching warlocks to traditional spell progression is the way to address that problem, and I am confident that the feedback in this UA will indicate it is likely not.

And don't get in the weeds about my post somehow being different from Mistwell's original statement nd the video evidence. Getting into the weeds to try an desperately prove something pretty clear as wrong for XYZ reason is a literal waste of time.

My dude, @Mistwell made a very specific claim, and I don’t believe that claim was accurate. I see no indication that WotC has closed the door on the possibility of short rest recovery of primary resources; not in the video, and not elsewhere.

 

[Aldarc]

Off-topic, but I love the spellcasting mechanic in Shadowdark (and Five Torches Deep, and probably others) where you make a spellcasting check every time you cast a spell. If you fail the check you lose it for the day, but until then you can keep casting as long as you want. No Vancian slots.

I see a lot less of this "I'd better save it in case I need it more later" because players think, "Yeah, but I have a better than 50% chance...."

It really changes the game play in an awesome way, imo.

FYI, this sort of casting is found in Dungeon World.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

This is pretty obtuse for someone as intelligent as you, and I'm not saying this sarcastically. If no class uses short rests as a primary resource refresh anymore, then they are saying that short rests shouldn't be used for that. C'mon man. None of that hyper-pointed semantics silliness, its pretty dang obvious what Crawford is saying here.

Mod Note:

C’mon man. It’s pretty dang obvious your post would have been clearer and more persuasive if you’d avoided the insults.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

No, its in Tasha's, which is compatiable with the new PHB.

I have not seen all the videos—-just this one.

Is it said that the current supplements can be used with ONE?

I sure hope that is the intent! I am however let down by no thirsting blade with a greatsword and the new pact weapon cantrip regardless….

 

[Remathilis]

Well, the surveys ask how satisfied people are with what’s in the UA. Voting to keep the old version isn’t really an option, you can only vote either in favor of or against the versions they present for playtesting.

Let’s say, hypothetically, this version doesn’t do well in the survey. Nothing they’ve said communicates to me that they would be unwilling to try something else that does tie in to short rests, and tries to address the issues groups who have few short rests experience with the Warlock in a different way.

Similar to wild shape. They tried the dedicated wild shape stat block thing, it was controversial. The possibility of trying to address the problem some groups have with wild shape in a different way that still uses standard beast stat blocks is still on the table.

Wild Shape and Pact Magic are basically two sides of the same coin IMHO. They are both key parts of their class's identity that seem simple on paper but have wildly different results depending on how much prep work you put into them. So it makes sense that they will try again to fix them, even if the first round didn't work.

Wild shape was criticized less for the need for change (though there was some) and more how bad the stat blocks were. If there is a similar issue with warlocks, I imagine they will attempt to fix the progression before they return to pact magic.

 

[tetrasodium]

fun little explainer probably being overlooked by a few. Video embed set to relevant (15:13) timestamp too

 

[Shardstone]

I have not seen all the videos—-just this one.

Is it said that the current supplements can be used with ONE?

I sure hope that is the intent! I am however let down by no thirsting blade with a greatsword and the new pact weapon cantrip regardless….

In previous media, they've said that the supplements will be compatiable. However, there will probably be overlap here and there, since some of the metamagics are being ported over. However, the intention is that really any Eldritch Inovcation or Metamagic option from another official supplement can be used with the new classes. However, they have a blanket disclaimer implied where it may be wonky from time to time; Eldritch Smite, however, just makes the Warlock into a Paladin, so I really don't see why it wouldn't be usable with the new Warlock without problem!

 

[Charlaquin]

Wild Shape and Pact Magic are basically two sides of the same coin IMHO. They are both key parts of their class's identity that seem simple on paper but have wildly different results depending on how much prep work you put into them. So it makes sense that they will try again to fix them, even if the first round didn't work.

Wild shape was criticized less for the need for change (though there was some) and more how bad the stat blocks were. If there is a similar issue with warlocks, I imagine they will attempt to fix the progression before they return to pact magic.

Yeah, I agree with that assessment

 

[TheSword]

As a person that likes the multi-class system for 5e it always annoyed me in extremis that Warlocks didn’t work within that system so I’m really pleased they have dropped the ridiculous pact magic rules and replaced with something that will work within that framework.

I did think losing higher levels known was a bit of a shame, until I saw mystic arcanum and realised they could cast higher level spell slots for free too. that’s pretty darn good. Much improved.

 

[WanderingMystic]

So what if they kept the half-caster spell progression but the free spell that they get from their patron gets bumped up to something more like the channel divinity so that you get multiple uses that could refresh on a short rest. This way you still have access to more spells that you can cast but it's from a very small list that is patron only that can refresh. Something like this allows them to keep the half-caster progression so that if they multi-class it will stack with other classes while still giving you a small selection of pretty much free spells to help balance out the loss of packed magic.