D&D (2024) Do you actually like weapon masteries?

[ART!]

I said it once and I'll say it again.

The designers of D&D may be hardcore fans but they play like casuals. That has been the issue since 3e.

They play stereotypical dwarf or human sword and board fighter and cleric with Cantrips spamming casters who don't use optimization.

You hear it in the video. Jeremy Crawford said he wants to be able to turn his brain off after a long day of work even though he is an experienced gamer. That's why Flex is so bad. It is made for people who aren't thinking.

It's why D&D needs more core warrior classes.

This is interesting! can you elaborate on what you think those would be, and/or what they would be like? Heck, start another thread if you want! I'm curious!

 

[orangefruitbat]

I have a question - will players enjoy having their characters get constantly nicked, cleaved, slowed, vexed or toppled? Will all the AC 21+ characters feel cheated when they're getting constantly grazed on a miss by monsters? Cause if PCs are getting these toys, as a DM I'm going to want my NPCs and monsters to get them too (when thematically appropriate of course).

 

[Incenjucar]

I have a question - will players enjoy having their characters get constantly nicked, cleaved, slowed, vexed or toppled? Will all the AC 21+ characters feel cheated when they're getting constantly grazed on a miss by monsters? Cause if PCs are getting these toys, as a DM I'm going to want my NPCs and monsters to get them too (when thematically appropriate of course).

Monsters already cast spells and use breath weapons, to the point where major PC features are built around them.

 

[Kinematics]

I think the only real problem I have with Flex is that it doesn't give any benefit at all if you use the weapon two-handed.

The only idea I have for how I'd correct that, though, would be to allow the user to choose one other weapon mastery to use with the Flex weapon if used two-handed. Once chosen, that mastery is permanent for that weapon (aside from the fighter's ability to change masteries).

Given that Flex only applies to versatile weapons, that means you'd choose between one of the other masteries that versatile weapons can have: Slow, Push, or Topple.

Does this seem like a reasonable modification to Flex?

 

[orangefruitbat]

Monsters already cast spells and use breath weapons, to the point where major PC features are built around them.

1) Well, so far, WotC hasn't revealed anything like an equivalent to Evasion for weapon properties. If they do, that's going to add a fair bit of complexity to the game.
2) Most monsters don't cast spells or use breath weapons - those are the exception. Most just have a melee attack and/or a ranged attack (sometimes with a little adder). And design trends seem to be reducing monster abilities and spells (compare MoM monsters versus Volos). TBH, I think monsters would be improved by having more mechanical heft to them.
3) Based on my experience, players will be unhappy when their melee character frequently needs to double move to engage without a save (thanks to the Slow property) or gets knocked unconscious (despite every attack missing their character).

 

[Incenjucar]

1) Well, so far, WotC hasn't revealed anything like an equivalent to Evasion for weapon properties. If they do, that's going to add a fair bit of complexity to the game.
2) Most monsters don't cast spells or use breath weapons - those are the exception. Most just have a melee attack and/or a ranged attack (sometimes with a little adder). And design trends seem to be reducing monster abilities and spells (compare MoM monsters versus Volos). TBH, I think monsters would be improved by having more mechanical heft to them.
3) Based on my experience, players will be unhappy when their melee character frequently needs to double move to engage without a save (thanks to the Slow property) or gets knocked unconscious (despite every attack missing their character).

1) I'd be surprised if there are zero monsters that can avoid damage on a miss
2) Most monsters aren't going to have fighter or barbarian levels or have the feat, and a LOT of monsters cast spells or have on-a-miss effects.
3) That feels like a table issue.

 

[Stalker0]

I have a question - will players enjoy having their characters get constantly nicked, cleaved, slowed, vexed or toppled? Will all the AC 21+ characters feel cheated when they're getting constantly grazed on a miss by monsters? Cause if PCs are getting these toys, as a DM I'm going to want my NPCs and monsters to get them too (when thematically appropriate of course).

Most npc fighters don't have the exact same abilities as a fighter, so not sure why all of them would suddenly get weapon masteries as well.

Now once in a while would I have a special npc with these abilities, sure. But I don't see a reason every tom, dick, and harry npc fighter would suddenly be bringing in the masteries.

 

[orangefruitbat]

Most npc fighters don't have the exact same abilities as a fighter, so not sure why all of them would suddenly get weapon masteries as well.

Now once in a while would I have a special npc with these abilities, sure. But I don't see a reason every tom, dick, and harry npc fighter would suddenly be bringing in the masteries.

I don't think you need to build NPCs with the same complexity as PCs, but an NPC fighter and a PC fighter should 'feel' about the same (same with NPC wizards and PC wizards, etc.). Difference in capabilities should be primarily a function of training/level. It would be immersion-breaking if NPC fighters didn't get access to weapon qualities.

 

[TheSword]

Yes, they’re very good. Nice addition.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I don't think you need to build NPCs with the same complexity as PCs, but an NPC fighter and a PC fighter should 'feel' about the same (same with NPC wizards and PC wizards, etc.). Difference in capabilities should be primarily a function of training/level. It would be immersion-breaking if NPC fighters didn't get access to weapon qualities.

Nah. Let them do different things. Let them do cool things like smash the ground and make it crack or throw thier swords like boomerangs.

No need for this 'eye for an eye' stuff. NPCs and monsters can do anything, so just let the fighter get the tiny, sad crumb they've been thrown without some sort of retaliation.