D&D (2024) Jeremy Crawford: “We are releasing new editions of the books”

[tetrasodium]

Kobold Press and EN Publishing are certainly trying to do what WoTC seems incapable of doing.

Are they? Levelup & what we've seen of ToV has mostly been reworking the races/classes but mechanically the rules still remain largely the same under the hood. I've been hesitant about dropping money on ToV's "alpha" ruleset in the KS just because I'm not really in need of "5e but with new classes & a couple additions but you start with an 18"

 

[Corinnguard]

Are they? Levelup & what we've seen of ToV has mostly been reworking the races/classes but mechanically the rules still remain largely the same under the hood. I've been hesitant about dropping money on ToV's "alpha" ruleset in the KS just because I'm not really in need of "5e but with new classes & a couple additions but you start with an 18"

What about Paizo's upcoming attempt to remaster PF2? curious

 

[Asisreo]

They know it'll end up being 5.5e or OneD&D or whatever. They are afraid customers might think they have to go through editions 1-5 to play the next edition, which a new player once feared about 5e when the game came out.

 

[ninjayeti]

Ultimately the community is going to come up with a name for the 2024 edition/version/iteration. WotC is just missing out on the opportunity to choose the name itself by pretending that it is not actually a thing.

 

[Parmandur]

Just to provide some important context from the paragraphs preceding the quotes in the OP to make it clear how Crawford laid out the issues very clearly:

“One of the reasons why this word ‘edition’ is loaded is currently it has two different meanings,” said Wizards’ game design architect Jeremy Crawford at the event. “In broader publishing, edition is a pretty neutral term that simply means ‘a new version of the book.’ Now, in D&D the term has over the years gained much greater weight, because the term also came to mean a new version of the game.""

"Those editions — those new versions of D&D — have always been fractious for the larger D&D community. Folks like to keep using the rules that they’re familiar with, and with every new edition of the game Wizards has left a significant portion of its player base behind. For a ready example, look no further than the transition to fourth edition that took place in the early 2000s. The transition from D&D 3.5 to fourth edition was a clean break with almost nothing but lore shared between the two systems. That huge change greatly splintered the player base, giving rise to Paizo’s Pathfinder and other upstart competitors. The fact that fourth edition played more like a tabletop miniatures game than a traditional RPG didn’t help matters at all, but the damage to the larger brand was not fully undone until 5th edition’s incredible surge in popularity prior to the COVID-19 pandemic."

"For those reasons, Wizards said, 5th edition is here to stay... even though its core rulebooks are changing."

"“We are releasing new editions of the books,” Crawford emphasized. “We are not releasing a new edition of the game. And so that, I think, is a really important distinction — that it is still 5th edition, but yes, we are releasing revised versions of the books, which anywhere else in the publishing world would be called new editions.”"

"The proposed solution, then, for differentiating between 5th edition and what comes next? To append the year of publication to the end of the core rulebooks’ names. That way, Wizards said, going forward there will have been a Player’s Handbook (2014) and there will also be a Player’s Handbook (2024). While they are fundamentally different books, Crawford said, they can both be used to play the same game. And, most importantly, they will both be compatible with every other 5th edition book that has come before."

"“The other books aren’t changing,” Crawford said. “These are new versions of these three books. It’s the same game.”"

 

[Parmandur]

Here is my issue, and I’m coming at this purely from a business perspective, as someone who has held a leadership position in a Fortune 500 company:

Everyone needs to stop talking. There needs to be a mass meeting where the individual in charge of D&D (name escapes me, he had a few interviews the other month) tells everyone at WotC that no one but him is allowed to discuss anything but game mechanics with the press, whether that press is traditional or new media. This is the way for the foreseeable future, until he states otherwise.

Next, that individual needs to pull in all the management at WotC and bang out what they need to communicate regarding edition classification, pricing increases, physical copy availability, Beyond plans, and anything related to the BUSINESS. Not simply being precious with terminology, as Crawford was here, but something substantive and clear. All questions about editions are referred to him. More importantly, he is out front and delivering this message actively, and constantly.

Until release, the individual is the point person, communicating clearly. By actively, I mean that this individual is offering to give answers and interviews to journalists and YouTubers and so forth, drafting releases, having regular columns for the community, and basically rebuilding trust.

Until this happens, until someone steps up and implements communication discipline, WotC will continue to have fiascos.

Now, I’ve had to talk too much business today, and I shall shut up about it.

I think that, in general, you are correct. But in this instance, Crawford has pretty clearly laid oit the issue: by the usage common in the publishing industry, this is a new typical "edition," but by that standard these are the 9th Edition of PHB, DMG, and MM. But that doesn't jive with how TSR and WotC butchered the term, as demonstrated by the core books of "Fifth Edition" being the 8th set of ISBNs to bear those names, not the 5th. So, these are updated books, but they are not "Editions" in the old WotC sense.

So, this is an example of clear communication trying to deal with WotC traditional misuse of words.

 

[Parmandur]

Ultimately the community is going to come up with a name for the 2024 edition/version/iteration. WotC is just missing out on the opportunity to choose the name itself by pretending that it is not actually a thing.

Read the article, they have: the new books are going to be "Players Handbook (2024)", "Dungeon Masters Guide (2024)", and "Monster Manual (2024)".

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Just to provide some important context from the paragraphs preceding the quotes in the OP to make it clear how Crawford laid out the issues very clearly:

“One of the reasons why this word ‘edition’ is loaded is currently it has two different meanings,” said Wizards’ game design architect Jeremy Crawford at the event. “In broader publishing, edition is a pretty neutral term that simply means ‘a new version of the book.’ Now, in D&D the term has over the years gained much greater weight, because the term also came to mean a new version of the game.""

"Those editions — those new versions of D&D — have always been fractious for the larger D&D community. Folks like to keep using the rules that they’re familiar with, and with every new edition of the game Wizards has left a significant portion of its player base behind. For a ready example, look no further than the transition to fourth edition that took place in the early 2000s. The transition from D&D 3.5 to fourth edition was a clean break with almost nothing but lore shared between the two systems. That huge change greatly splintered the player base, giving rise to Paizo’s Pathfinder and other upstart competitors. The fact that fourth edition played more like a tabletop miniatures game than a traditional RPG didn’t help matters at all, but the damage to the larger brand was not fully undone until 5th edition’s incredible surge in popularity prior to the COVID-19 pandemic."

"For those reasons, Wizards said, 5th edition is here to stay... even though its core rulebooks are changing."

"“We are releasing new editions of the books,” Crawford emphasized. “We are not releasing a new edition of the game. And so that, I think, is a really important distinction — that it is still 5th edition, but yes, we are releasing revised versions of the books, which anywhere else in the publishing world would be called new editions.”"

"The proposed solution, then, for differentiating between 5th edition and what comes next? To append the year of publication to the end of the core rulebooks’ names. That way, Wizards said, going forward there will have been a Player’s Handbook (2014) and there will also be a Player’s Handbook (2024). While they are fundamentally different books, Crawford said, they can both be used to play the same game. And, most importantly, they will both be compatible with every other 5th edition book that has come before."

"“The other books aren’t changing,” Crawford said. “These are new versions of these three books. It’s the same game.”"

The last part is the best and most important part.

 

[overgeeked]

"Can we please not call it an edition change Community? Please, just let us release the ... revised updates to the books, and dont scare people into thinking its a new edition. Don't mind all the updates that fundamentally change aspects of the game, this is not an edition change. Its a revised....edition...ish?"

Source - Crawford, Probably.

Like with 3 to 3.5, it’s not a new edition right up until it is. They’ll call it whatever they have to to sell books. A new edition scares away buyers? It’s not a new edition. People won’t buy the new stuff unless it’s a new edition? It’s totally a new edition.

 

[Parmandur]

The last part is the best and most important part.

Exactly, it shows they are aware of the issue of clarity, and ha e a plan in place.