D&D 5E The Printers Can't Handle WotC's One D&D Print Runs!

One of the reasons why the three new core rulebooks next year will not be released together is because D&D is such a juggernaut that the printers can't actually handle the size of the print runs!

Jeremy Crawford told Polygon "Our print runs are pretty darn big and printers are telling us you can’t give us these three books at the same time.” And Chris Perkins added that "The print runs we’re talking about are massive. That’s been not only true of the core books, but also Tasha’s Cauldron. It’s what we call a high-end problem."

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I think that price level is simply too expensive for most people and it exceeds the value that most would place on a premade RPG and setting (especially since this is a hobby people can make settings and systems for themselves if they really need to). Now not everyone may agree. I am sure plenty of posters have no problem spending those kinds of dollars on a book. .

So I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you're older. One of the issues that older people have (for real!) and the reason that people have this caricature of older people being "cheap" that is also true is that older people have had decades of being used to prices at a certain point. In effect, we have been "anchored" to those prices. So even when we can intellectually understand that prices do change, it's still hard to emotionally understand that prices mean something different now.

If you look back at this post, you can see that the prices aren't actually different in terms of inflation, and that prices have always tended to hover in the $50-$60 price range for a core book. In fact, this price point will be less that the 2014 price point.

So when you say it is too expensive, it is, in fact, less expensive than when it was released in 2014. Again, I understand how it feels emotionally ... but that's not what is happening.

 

[Bedrockgames]

So I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you're older. One of the issues that older people have (for real!) and the reason that people have this caricature of older people being "cheap" that is also true is that older people have had decades of being used to prices at a certain point. In effect, we have been "anchored" to those prices. So even when we can intellectually understand that prices do change, it's still hard to emotionally understand that prices mean something different now.

If you look back at this post, you can see that the prices aren't actually different in terms of inflation, and that prices have always tended to hover in the $50-$60 price range for a core book. In fact, this price point will be less that the 2014 price point.

So when you say it is too expensive, it is, in fact, less expensive than when it was released in 2014. Again, I understand how it feels emotionally ... but that's not what is happening.

I am late 40s. I understand the inflation. And there are different measures of inflation and where the price ought to be is something people can debate. But costs have been rising rapidly and my point is for many, wages are not going up sufficiently. So it is I think also a matter of affordability. Like I said for others this may not be the case. I know when I weigh what I pay in gas, food, rent, etc against book cover prices, it becomes harder and harder for me to justify the expense as prices hit these points (and I hear from plenty of people who aren’t older who have the same experience).

To be this isn’t about emotions, it is about affordability. One consequence of the kind of inflation we have seen is people cut back and tighten budgets.

I did see the linked post (my post above was also meant as a response to that)

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I am late 40s. I understand the inflation. And there are different measures of inflation and where the price ought to be is something people can debate. But costs have been rising rapidly and my point is for many, wages are not going up sufficiently. So it is I think also a matter of affordability. Like I said for others this may not be the case. I know when I weigh what I pay in gas, food, rent, etc against book cover prices, it becomes harder and harder for me to justify the expense as prices hit these points (and I hear from plenty of people who aren’t older who have the same experience).

To be this isn’t about emotions, it is about affordability. One consequence of the kind of inflation we have seen is people cut back and tighten budgets.

Thank you for the response- I will point out a few things, again.

First, as I pointed out, it is easy to say that you intellectually understand something, but it is much harder to say that you emotionally understand something. You are, quite literally, arguing against basic facts by trying to claim that there are different measures! Feel free to use whatever measure you want for inflation or CPI, but you'll find the same thing- the 2024 core books will be cheaper than the 2014 core books! Cheaper. And this is right now ... this isn't next year, when they will be cheaper still. And this isn't five or ten years years from now, when (because they tend to hold prices on books for a long time) they will be cheaper still. They are raising the prices now, but the price will continue to go down (as did the 2014 books) relative to inflation until they are forced to increase them again. I feel like I just had a long post about this! With like, figures and everything?????

Next, as has been repeatedly pointed out, not only are the books cheaper than they were when they were introduced in 2014, but the actual costs are much higher because of the changes in the publishing industry. Sure- it's not like WoTC is losing money, but they aren't even making the same profit.

Third, the complaints about wages is somewhat bizarre given WoTC pays fair wages within the industry for their work. Moreover, as has been pointed out, creatives at WoTC and Paizo and elsewhere (other than you) want these prices to increase so that they can charge more and so that their wages can increase.

Fourth, and more importantly, TTRPG books are a bargain compared to other entertainment. You can get years or even decades of enjoyment from the purchase. But yes, if the price is too high (EVEN THOUGH IT IS LESS THAN 2014!!!!) don't buy it! That's economics.

Fifth, there are numerous options, from used books to the free basic set. It is somewhat unbecoming for people to complain that they are raising prices that do not even keep pace with inflation given the numerous available options that are cheap and/or free.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Thank you for the response- I will point out a few things, again.

First, as I pointed out, it is easy to say that you intellectually understand something, but it is much harder to say that you emotionally understand something. You are, quite literally, arguing against basic facts by trying to claim that there are different measures! Feel free to use whatever measure you want for inflation or CPI, but you'll find the same thing- the 2024 core books will be cheaper than the 2014 core books! Cheaper. And this is right now ... this isn't next year, when they will be cheaper still. And this isn't five or ten years years from now, when (because they tend to hold prices on books for a long time) they will be cheaper still. They are raising the prices now, but the price will continue to go down (as did the 2014 books) relative to inflation until they are forced to increase them again. I feel like I just had a long post about this! With like, figures and everything?????

Next, as has been repeatedly pointed out, not only are the books cheaper than they were when they were introduced in 2014, but the actual costs are much higher because of the changes in the publishing industry. Sure- it's not like WoTC is losing money, but they aren't even making the same profit.

Third, the complaints about wages is somewhat bizarre given WoTC pays fair wages within the industry for their work. Moreover, as has been pointed out, creatives at WoTC and Paizo and elsewhere (other than you) want these prices to increase so that they can charge more and so that their wages can increase.

Fourth, and more importantly, TTRPG books are a bargain compared to other entertainment. You can get years or even decades of enjoyment from the purchase. But yes, if the price is too high (EVEN THOUGH IT IS LESS THAN 2014!!!!) don't buy it! That's economics.

Fifth, there are numerous options, from used books to the free basic set. It is somewhat unbecoming for people to complain that they are raising prices that do not even keep pace with inflation given the numerous available options that are cheap and/or free.

My guess is the wages they pay writers are WOTC are not the biggest driver of cover price. This argument also I think kind of uses writers as a way for the company to defend increasing prices

You make very good points but when I talk to people the chief complaint is costs of living are going up and peoples wages aren’t keeping up. I personally am having trouble affording books lately because I have to pay for basics. Many people are in that boat.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Fifth, there are numerous options, from used books to the free basic set. It is somewhat unbecoming for people to complain that they are raising prices that do not even keep pace with inflation given the numerous available options that are cheap and/or free.

And people are doing this. But telling people they can buy them used or just go to the library, that strikes me as a bit callous. I certainly get the sympathy for creatives and their need to earn a living wage (frankly I wish WOTC did what TSR used to and had more full time in house writers----freelance is a very rough way to earn a living). I am a little uncomfortable though with large companies using that argument as a justification for price increases because it places those creatives in a position of defending the higher prices for their livelihood. But we should also sympathize with people saying they can't afford the books where the prices are going. Especially when this is a hobby that spans a wide, wide spectrum of income. People often talk a lot about reaching a more diverse audience.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

And people are doing this. But telling people they can buy them used or just go to the library, that strikes me as a bit callous. I certainly get the sympathy for creatives and their need to earn a living wage (frankly I wish WOTC did what TSR used to and had more full time in house writers----freelance is a very rough way to earn a living). I am a little uncomfortable though with large companies using that argument as a justification for price increases because it places those creatives in a position of defending the higher prices for their livelihood. But we should also sympathize with people saying they can't afford the books where the prices are going. Especially when this is a hobby that spans a wide, wide spectrum of income. People often talk a lot about reaching a more diverse audience.

It is not callous to point out that WoTC publishes a free Basic pdf.
That there is a thriving used book market.
That a group can get together and pool money to purchase a book.
That this is one of the cheapest hobbies around.

Instead, what is bizarre is that there are people that keep demanding that WoTC, in addition to all of this, continue to ... what, subsidize your entertainment preferences?

I will respectfully disagree with you. No matter how you try to gussy it up, you don't have the right to dictate the price that books are sold for, and demand that WoTC keep selling books for the same price for decades despite costs increasing and inflation. And despite it being a NEW PRODUCT that has to have increased work. And, as I've pointed out - that's never been the case in all the history of this product and game.

I wish Netflix gave me 4k on infinite devices for $6.99 a month. That wish, and $10, will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Instead, what is bizarre is that there are people that keep demanding that WoTC, in addition to all of this, continue to ... what, subsidize your entertainment preferences?

I don't think it is a demand to simply say you find the price too high. It is expressing an opinion and hopefully helping contribute to a conversation that helps paint a picture of what people can afford, what they are willing to spend on books, etc. And it is a full conversation. People are also weighing in saying they think the prices are fine. That is the kind of conversation that people should be having in my opinion.

I will respectfully disagree with you. No matter how you try to gussy it up, you don't have the right to dictate the price that books are sold for, and demand that WoTC keep selling books for the same price for decades despite costs increasing and inflation. And despite it being a NEW PRODUCT that has to have increased work. And, as I've pointed out - that's never been the case in all the history of this product and game.

I am not demanding anything. WOTC can do whatever it wants to. But I can give my opinion about the cost of books, the cost of production and where the hobby is at in that respect (and people can disagree and that is fine).

I wish Netflix gave me 4k on infinite devices for $6.99 a month. That wish, and $10, will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Sure, but plenty of people have canceled netflix when they have raised their prices. I personally have limited my streaming to netflix and prime (and my wife would be very happy if we got rid of one of them). I haven't watched any of the new star wars or star trek shows because it just isn't workable in our budget to take on those streaming services. I approach my book spending in the same way. And while no one can demand anything from a company, if the economic realities make the cover prices harder for people to afford, sales will go down

 

[mamba]

My guess is the wages they pay writers are WOTC are not the biggest driver of cover price. This argument also I think kind of uses writers as a way for the company to defend increasing prices

they certainly aren’t, and given the print run sizes of WotC, they become a rounding error (as opposed to for an indie publisher, same effort / cost to create the book, but 1/100th the number of books)

Another thing to keep in mind is that not all things are affected by inflation equally. If gas and rent goes up but everything else stays basically the same, there is little reason to raise book prices. If paper and printing color prices go up, there is.
So the price increase being in line with overall inflation does not really mean anything, esp if half of inflation is greedflation to begin with, ie companies raising profits instead of offsetting rising costs.

Also, number of pages keeps going down while the prices stayed the same, that is also an ‘invisible’ price increase. If Amazon is correct, Glory of Giants is 192 pages, when we are used to 224, 256, or more in some cases.

The new core books should reverse that trend again, but it shows that books are not really priced based on manufacturing cost, otherwise a book with 200 pages should be cheaper than one with 300.

Finally, this will be the new price point for some years, so it has to factor in future inflation as well and kind of average it out. I.e. they make more profit now on $60 books than they will going forward, as future inflation will keep chipping away at the profits.

So there are a ton of factors here the ‘the price increase is in line with inflation’ line ignores. This is not just a matter of bringing your current profit in line again, and it could have waited some time too, WotC was not exactly struggling because of inflation. They saw an opportunity, they ceased it, it could have happened a year from now just as well, it could have been a smaller increase. Ultimately this is not about the price WotC needs, it is about maximizing profits, it always is.

 

[TwoSix]

And people are doing this. But telling people they can buy them used or just go to the library, that strikes me as a bit callous. I certainly get the sympathy for creatives and their need to earn a living wage (frankly I wish WOTC did what TSR used to and had more full time in house writers----freelance is a very rough way to earn a living). I am a little uncomfortable though with large companies using that argument as a justification for price increases because it places those creatives in a position of defending the higher prices for their livelihood. But we should also sympathize with people saying they can't afford the books where the prices are going. Especially when this is a hobby that spans a wide, wide spectrum of income. People often talk a lot about reaching a more diverse audience.

I can sympathize with the fact that wages aren't keeping up with inflation, but that isn't WotC's fault.

And let's be frank. At the core, a revised version of a 10 year old game that's perfectly playable just by doing some googling for SRD info is a luxury good. If your economic situation precludes buying luxury goods, that's unfortunate but sometimes unavoidable.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I can sympathize with the fact that wages aren't keeping up with inflation, but that isn't WotC's fault.

Of course it isn’t there fault. But if wages aren’t up enough, publishers need to balance inflation against what people can or are willing to spend. That is why I said publishers as a whole should take a good look at ways to reduce production cost

And let's be frank. At the core, a revised version of a 10 year old game that's perfectly playable just by doing some googling for SRD info is a luxury good. If your economic situation precludes buying luxury goods, that's unfortunate but sometimes unavoidable.

Again, I think books ought to be affordable abd not luxury items. But this just goes to my point: if the cover price is too costly for people they will just stop buying the books, reduce their buying and or resort to SRDs, making their own version of the game, relying on old editions, used boots of cheaper RPGs. In the present economy I think that is a very real thing publishers have to consider