D&D (2024) Playtest Packet 6: They knocked Druid out of the Park

[Chaosmancer]

Exactly how moonbeam works againt a moon druid.

No. Moonbeam is not being rewritten to add a clause to hurt the Druid. Moonbeam is just doing what moonbeam is supposed to do. The fact the druid might qualify for the secondary effect is unfortunate, but not like adding a clause to fire spells to do extra damage to draconic sorcerers.

And it would be really silly if they got disadvantage on saving throws against fire spells.

True, but currently there is no text in a fire spell that says sorcerers get disadvantage on the save. Again, the position of "the spell works as advertised" is not the same as "rewrite spells to specifically target a certain class"

I really don't know how many DM you would be able to convince that wild shape isn't shapeshifting (not capitalized).

I don't know either, but it could be that WoTC didn't add a clause to the Moon Druid because they are not actually rolling at disadvantage against the spell. Whether or not a DM believes that doesn't change that might be WoTC's logic.

That would be enough to avoid the worst of it.

But it would still be cool if a moon druid wasn't afraid of the moon.
Or even wanted to stand in it.

And it would be cool if fire sorcerers were healed by fire damage, but rewriting spell effects can be tricky business.

 

[mamba]

Maybe immune is too strong. But they shouldn't be extra vulnerable to their own class feature.

they are not extra vulnerable, they are the regular level of vulnerability

 

[mellored]

Again, the position of "the spell works as advertised" is not the same as "rewrite spells to specifically target a certain class"

I wasn't suggesting making any changes to the spell.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I wasn't suggesting making any changes to the spell.

I know you weren't making changes to moonbeam. However, saying "Moonbeam against a moon druid is like flaming sphere forcing a draconic sorcerer to lose spell slots" is not a good comparison. Flaming Sphere does not cause Spell Slot damage, it isn't a function of the spell. To create that situation, you have to rewrite Flaming Sphere to make it cause the problem.

Moonbeam is not getting rewritten. No one is adding text to moonbeam to make Moon Druids more vulnerable to it. Moonbeam is the same. And, moonbeam has always been a druid spell. So, moonbeam was something a moon druid could cast and hold concentration on before wildshaping. And this has never, to my knowledge, ever led to a moon druid being thrown into their own moonbeam and losing their combat shape.

Yes, now that it is a feature, it will be more common, and it may even happen more often, but we've discussed a few different ways in which the moon druid is safe from the forced shifting of moonbeam.

 

[Azzy]

Right. So I finally did a deep dive into the druid (I've been putting it off because of the previous playtest druid). Overall, it's not bad. I only have a few nitpicks.

I wish that there were one or two more choices under Primal Order, but I can live with this.

I’m somewhat sad to see the templates go entirely. The idea was solid but the execution was really bad. However, my heart will go on.

The Land and Sea circles look good, but most of my attention was drawn to the Moon druid (because I'm playing one currently). Overall, not bad.

Combat Wild Shape:

• While it “makes sense” that your Wild Shape form doesn’t get your shield bonus (if any), that seems needlessly fiddly.
• Determining Temporary Hit Points by choosing between whether the form’s hp or 3× Level is less is even more fiddly. Just go with 3× Level regardless of the form’s hp. Doing this will help the form scale and be viable at higher levels.
• Use the druid's spell attack bonus instead of the form's attack bonus. This will also let lower CR forms scale with level.
• Maybe scale the form's damage, though this might not be necessary given the Elemental Fury feature.

Improved Circle Forms
My only complaint is that I’d like this feature to increase the CR limit again at some point in the fourth tier—so that a 20th-level druid can finally Wild Shape into that CR 8 T-Rex.

Moonlight Step
I'd like it to be explicit that this feature can be used while Wild Shaped.

 

[DavyGreenwind]

Combat Wild Shape:

• While it “makes sense” that your Wild Shape form doesn’t get your shield bonus (if any), that seems needlessly fiddly.
• Determining Temporary Hit Points by choosing between whether the form’s hp or 3× Level is less is even more fiddly. Just go with 3× Level regardless of the form’s hp. Doing this will help the form scale and be viable at higher levels.
• Use the druid's spell attack bonus instead of the form's attack bonus. This will also let lower CR forms scale with level.
• Maybe scale the form's damage, though this might not be necessary given the Elemental Fury feature.

Improved Circle Forms
My only complaint is that I’d like this feature to increase the CR limit again at some point in the fourth tier—so that a 20th-level druid can finally Wild Shape into that CR 8 T-Rex.

Moonlight Step
I'd like it to be explicit that this feature can be used while Wild Shaped.

I agree with these notes. Especially getting rid of the fiddliness. I also think that, if they want to make the Moon Druid the ultimate Wildshaper, they could let the Moon Druid prepare more Wildshape forms each day.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Combat Wild Shape:

• While it “makes sense” that your Wild Shape form doesn’t get your shield bonus (if any), that seems needlessly fiddly.

I think this is overstating things. It's clear and sensible, as it is. With your proposal, it would make sense for the ranger using two-handed weapons don a sield before wildshaping, which is more fiddly and makes less sense.

EDIT: Or, worse, to wildshape while holding a shield into a gorilla, and then when wildshaped wield a second shield.

• Determining Temporary Hit Points by choosing between whether the form’s hp or 3× Level is less is even more fiddly. Just go with 3× Level regardless of the form’s hp. Doing this will help the form scale and be viable at higher levels.

Agreed.

• Use the druid's spell attack bonus instead of the form's attack bonus. This will also let lower CR forms scale with level.

Depending on the damage done by the forms, this could work.

 

[mellored]

Improved Circle Forms
My only complaint is that I’d like this feature to increase the CR limit again at some point in the fourth tier—so that a 20th-level druid can finally Wild Shape into that CR 8 T-Rex.

I think the better solution would be to make a CR 6 T-Rex.
And a CR 6 wolf.
And a CR 6 bear.
And a CR 6 crocodile.
...

That way, the moon druid gets fixed. But also there are just more monster.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Depending on the damage done by the forms, this could work.

Other than poison damage, I struggle to think of a form that would make more powerful attacks than the druid could pull off natively. And mostly this is about accuracy, in my mind.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I think the better solution would be to make a CR 6 T-Rex.
And a CR 6 wolf.
And a CR 6 bear.
And a CR 6 crocodile.
...

That way, the moon druid gets fixed. But also there are just more monster.

Soo... is your solution to create multiple Monster Manual stat blocks for each wildshapable animal, specifically at every CR that is unlockable as a Moon Druid?