D&D (2024) We have Arcane, Divine, and Primal lists now. Why not Psionic?

[Charlaquin]

We don't. Why would we?

Because it seems like a thing WotC would want to test…?

If psionics is just going to be the same as magic then who needs it?

I dunno, but that seems to be how WotC decided to do it.

 

[Charlaquin]

Because there isn't going to be a Psionic class in the 2024 PHB and any implementation of Psionics isn't going to appear in a book until 2025 at the earliest?

But if the point of organizing spell litsts by power source is future-proofing, that shouldn’t stop them.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I mean, I don’t disagree, but since it’s clear that they’re not going to do that, and since spell lists are seemingly going to be by power source in 2024, a psionic list seems like the obvious way to go. Yet we don’t see it in the playtest.

They'd need a reason to add a psionic spell list in the PH (maybe they aren't sold on psionics using spell design).

If and when they design psionic classes that use spells, I expect they will add a psionic spell list in that new soucebook, which can contain everything appropriate from the PH and the new sourcebook.

 

[Vael]

But if the point of organizing spell litsts by power source is future-proofing, that shouldn’t stop them.

1. No class in the 2024 PHB will be using that list, so why bother? It's a waste of space and time for the 2024 PHB. You're not future-proofing or even testing anything, there is no class or content that uses it.
2. I think it's safe to assume that there will be no major work being put into implementing Psionics until the 2024 Core books are off to print. So why divert effort into something that won't see print.
3. Building that list actually locks them out of trying something else with Psionics.

Like, I want Psionics, but I'm not expecting to see a whiff of it in the 2024 PHB, so I'm not expecting any Psionic material at all until the core books are in my hands and WotC are creating UA for whatever comes next. And Psionics would be a way to get my money for that next book, wink, wink, nudge, nudge

 

[Charlaquin]

They'd need a reason to add a psionic spell list in the PH (maybe they aren't sold on psionics using spell design).

The reason would be that there are any spells in the PHB that they would want to later put on the psionic spell list. Otherwise, the power source spell lists wouldn’t be doing their job of future-proofing.

 

[Parmandur]

The reason would be that there are any spells in the PHB that they would want to later put on the psionic spell list. Otherwise, the power source spell lists wouldn’t be doing their job of future-proofing.

But any future book will assume access to the PHB, so a theoretical Psionic Spell list in a future referring to Apells in the PHB wouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Charlaquin]

But any future book will assume access to the PHB, so a theoretical Psionic Spell list in a future referring to Apells in the PHB wouldn't be a big deal.

But the premise they pitched power source spell lists on was that they would allow them to not have to do that

 

[Parmandur]

But the premise they pitched power source spell lists on was that they would allow them to not have to do that

I recall that logic for the Class Groups, bit not the Spell Lists. The Class Groups appear to have been dropped, but the combined Liats seem to be doing fine. The concept of a comboned list seems solid, bit the example of the Bard already allowing a Liat to be swapped out suggests that it can be open to modification in future products.

 

[Minigiant]

1. No class in the 2024 PHB will be using that list, so why bother? It's a waste of space and time for the 2024 PHB. You're not future-proofing or even testing anything, there is no class or content that uses it.
2. I think it's safe to assume that there will be no major work being put into implementing Psionics until the 2024 Core books are off to print. So why divert effort into something that won't see print.
3. Building that list actually locks them out of trying something else with Psionics.

Like, I want Psionics, but I'm not expecting to see a whiff of it in the 2024 PHB, so I'm not expecting any Psionic material at all until the core books are in my hands and WotC are creating UA for whatever comes next. And Psionics would be a way to get my money for that next book, wink, wink, nudge, nudge

This is why I'd want a Elemental and Astral spell lists before a Psionic one.

 

[jerryrice4949]

I think Wizards has painted themselves into a corner regarding psionics.

In D&D5, and seemingly even more so in 5.1, pretty much everything magical has been streamlined into regular spellcasting. Warlocks dared to have a slightly different take on casting, but now they're back in the fold (a better way of giving warlocks more spells, which would also make other parts of the system better, would have been to change a short rest to 5 minutes, thus making their spells actual encounter power, instead of sticking with the ridiculous hour-long period).

But those of us who are psionics fans generally like it because it is different from spellcasting, and because it's an alternative magic system. Feats and sub-classes is not enough – we want 2-3 classes with a full complement of sub-classes that explore different psionic niches. Basically, what the Expanded Psionics Handbook was for 3.5e.

And that's not going to happen. They've made a few attempts at making psionic classes that fit into the 5e mold, and failed. So they put some psionic bits and pieces into Tasha's, and I'm guessing they're not among the most popular bits. People who want to play telepaths don't just want the ability to communicate silently and to read someone's mind once per day. They want to use mind blasts, various flavors of mind control, psychic illusions, and so on. Basically, to do the stuff Professor X does. Sure, at appropriate levels, but still.

Plus, in order to give psionics a good place to be, they'd have to eat a good portion of the wizard's lunch. Wizards (and other arcane casters) can already do most of the things a psion should be able to do. Not to the same degree perhaps, but the arcane list has both small- and large-scale telekinesis, force fields, mind reading and control, and so on. And they do it (mostly) where the levels where those effects are appropriate. So either the arcane list gets nerfed to make room for psionics (which will make people who like Enchanters and Illusionists howl), or psionics get to do the same thing but better (which would be broken), or psionics will just get to do a sub-set of the arcane stuff at the same level arcanists do (which will make people ask "why should I be a psion when I could be a wizard?").

I generally agree with your thoughts on psionics. They idea of making a short rest 5 minutes and tying Warlock spells to that would be even more awful than the current Warlock.