D&D General Lethality, AD&D, and 5e: Looking Back at the Deadliest Edition

[Clint_L]

Someone who started playing D&D in 1981 entered a whole different environment than someone who started playing in either 1975 or 1987. I don't think the environment is changing nearly as fast today - I'd posit the experiences of someone who started D&D in 2015 and someone starting today will be much more similar by comparison.

I think the inflection point today is whether or not you started on DnDBeyond.

My new students instantly have access to every single source book. Their character sheets are fully integrated, so they can hover over anything and see what it does. They can roll dice on their character sheet - just click on longsword, +5 to hit and it rolls for you, and we all see the virtual dice. Same for damage, etc.

If you're a DM building or running an encounter, it is miles more efficient. Every official monster, sorted however you like. Initiative, hit points, etc. all tracked for you.

I'm not saying it's better or worse - that's subjective. But it is massively different.

 

[bloodtide]

Did you grow up among the Amish or something? Because I can assure you it would have been quite uncommon for your average American kid to make soap or candles on a regular basis. (My sister did make a candle in elementary school as part of a class project. My mother still has that candle, but my macroni art is far superior.)

Again, it did depend where you lived. I'm sure that whatever corner of the world you grew up in has not changed one bit in the past 50 years.

What planet did you live on that a kid of 13 in the 80's had downed a buck with a bow and arrow? ROTFLMAO. I grew up about as rural as you can get in Canada and I guarantee that ZERO people in my town had done that. Never minding a kid of 13. "Trapped a rabbit"? Good way to get a visit from the game warden.

I think you maybe, just maybe, projecting just a teeny bit.

Sure, some families like yours bought a Microwave on January 2nd 1980. For a lot of the rest of the country, Microwaves did not come around until the late 80s.

You never went hunting with a bow and arrow? You know this is a real thing?

And your not exactly growing up in a "rural" area if you just go to a store and buy food like it's 2023. A big part of the rural life is growing, trapping and hunting your own food.

You have posted similar sentiments many times,

Well, somethings are better then others. This is a simple fact, even if it's not liked. Even today, as I did as a kid, I make Lemonade with real lemons....not a couple of scoops of "lemon flavored drink mix". I make mashed potatoes with real potatoes, not some "just add water powered mix". I cook real meat, from a real killed animal on a fire....I don't buy frozen "BBQ shaped" food("made with some real meat!").

I have hundreds of real life skills, even beyond food and cooking. Life was different back in the day. We had to navigate by the sun and stars, no pocket GPS. For Astronomy we had to find things in the sky by using the celestial sphere, not just download a 'spacefinder app'. Once we left the immediate 'city' area, there was simply no way to get in touch with someone; we did not have cell phones with us at all times.

And, yes, today is much different. The vast majority of kids, even young people, don't have a lot of skills. Sure they don't "need" a lot of them, but it has gone very far towards the sci-fi apocalypse where people don't know how things work. Not even a joke here.....

Things that come up often, if you play Reality Simulation type RPGs. Hunting, fishing, making fire, cooking and such skills are unknown to many younger gamers. Of course, most modern games just do the "oh just have your character make a survival roll" or something like that.

And this gets into the having done things in real life. I've jumped, climbed, swung and otherwise done things...so I know what I, as an "average human" can do. And I've done a TON of stuff really just to "prove" it's possible. I've jumped off a barn, shot a bow in mid air, hit a far away bullseye, and landed in a pile of hay. And, in case your wondering...I'm not Hawkeye. But the point is that if I, a normal person can do it, it's possible for a lot of normal people to do it. I know this as I did it. The young folk watch the CGI spam in movies and think any of that is real.

 

[Clint_L]

Again, it did depend where you lived. I'm sure that whatever corner of the world you grew up in has not changed one bit in the past 50 years.

Dude, the childhood you describe is...a little extreme. Like, extreme by 19th century standards, let alone late 20th century. If you think American kids at that time were regularly hunting for their own food with bow and arrow, making their own soap, navigating by the stars...well, that seems like a very unusual set of experiences. Also, for 99.9% of the population those are mostly useless skills in 2023, just like they were in 1980. So it is unfair to judge people for not having them. They can buy soap for a dollar.

Well, somethings are better then others. This is a simple fact, even if it's not liked.

This is just another way of saying that your values are better than those of others. They aren't. Values are subjective. You are justifying judging other people as inferior to yourself. You often complain about having difficulty playing D&D with younger players. It's not them. It's you. Stop judging them and feeling superior. Consider that they, too, might know things that are as valid in their lives as your experiences were in yours.

 

[Hussar]

Again, it did depend where you lived. I'm sure that whatever corner of the world you grew up in has not changed one bit in the past 50 years.


Sure, some families like yours bought a Microwave on January 2nd 1980. For a lot of the rest of the country, Microwaves did not come around until the late 80s.

You never went hunting with a bow and arrow? You know this is a real thing?

And your not exactly growing up in a "rural" area if you just go to a store and buy food like it's 2023. A big part of the rural life is growing, trapping and hunting your own food.

.

Again. No. Shockingly enough, we did have a grocery store in our little village of 800 people.

Again your experience is very much not what most North Americans were experiencing in the 80’s.

I mean good grief people in the 1880’s hunted with rifles not bows. The whole bow hunting scene has been a pretty niche sport for a long time. Most of the growth has been recently because the season is more than the single weekend for deer in Southern Ontario.

Navigate by the stars? Your having a laugh. 99% of people navigate by landmarks. Turn left after the big cow field.

And Tang wasn’t a new invention in the 80’s.

So try telling me how it was back in the day again.

——————-

Now the point about how starting DnD even a few years apart makes such a difference is something I would very much agree with.

 

[Velderan]

Again, it did depend where you lived. I'm sure that whatever corner of the world you grew up in has not changed one bit in the past 50 years.


Sure, some families like yours bought a Microwave on January 2nd 1980. For a lot of the rest of the country, Microwaves did not come around until the late 80s.

You never went hunting with a bow and arrow? You know this is a real thing?

And your not exactly growing up in a "rural" area if you just go to a store and buy food like it's 2023. A big part of the rural life is growing, trapping and hunting your own food.

Well, somethings are better then others. This is a simple fact, even if it's not liked. Even today, as I did as a kid, I make Lemonade with real lemons....not a couple of scoops of "lemon flavored drink mix". I make mashed potatoes with real potatoes, not some "just add water powered mix". I cook real meat, from a real killed animal on a fire....I don't buy frozen "BBQ shaped" food("made with some real meat!").

I have hundreds of real life skills, even beyond food and cooking. Life was different back in the day. We had to navigate by the sun and stars, no pocket GPS. For Astronomy we had to find things in the sky by using the celestial sphere, not just download a 'spacefinder app'. Once we left the immediate 'city' area, there was simply no way to get in touch with someone; we did not have cell phones with us at all times.

And, yes, today is much different. The vast majority of kids, even young people, don't have a lot of skills. Sure they don't "need" a lot of them, but it has gone very far towards the sci-fi apocalypse where people don't know how things work. Not even a joke here.....

Things that come up often, if you play Reality Simulation type RPGs. Hunting, fishing, making fire, cooking and such skills are unknown to many younger gamers. Of course, most modern games just do the "oh just have your character make a survival roll" or something like that.

And this gets into the having done things in real life. I've jumped, climbed, swung and otherwise done things...so I know what I, as an "average human" can do. And I've done a TON of stuff really just to "prove" it's possible. I've jumped off a barn, shot a bow in mid air, hit a far away bullseye, and landed in a pile of hay. And, in case your wondering...I'm not Hawkeye. But the point is that if I, a normal person can do it, it's possible for a lot of normal people to do it. I know this as I did it. The young folk watch the CGI spam in movies and think any of that is real.

I grew up in a rural Minnesota town which I believe had 173 people in the last census. Directions to my childhood home involved "turn off the paved road" if that helps me build rural credibility. None of what you said even remotely matches what I or any of my friends experienced growing up. While we didn't have spacefinder apps, we definitely did have a handy invention called a compass to help us avoid getting lost while camping in the woods. Frozen TV dinners, Kool-aid, and instant mashed potato were all things back then too. No one hunted or trapped animals for their food. Some of my friends lived on farms, so I can't say for sure whether they ever leaped out of a barn while shooting arrows at a target. I'm assuming they'd brag about it at school if they had.

 

[MGibster]

Again, it did depend where you lived. I'm sure that whatever corner of the world you grew up in has not changed one bit in the past 50 years.

That's why I asked if you grew up among the Amish or something. In the 70s and 80s, how many people in the United States, Great Britian, or any other place where electricity was cheap and reliable do you think made their own soap or candles instead of buying them at the store? Where did you grow up that it was common for children to have experience making soap and candles beacuse they couldn't buy mass market goods at the store?

 

[Clint_L]

In retrospect, I think Bloodtide was pulling our legs and we all just fell for it. Which, given the theme of the thread, has to be considered well played, sir.

 

[Oofta]

I grew up in a rural Minnesota town which I believe had 173 people in the last census. Directions to my childhood home involved "turn off the paved road" if that helps me build rural credibility. None of what you said even remotely matches what I or any of my friends experienced growing up. While we didn't have spacefinder apps, we definitely did have a handy invention called a compass to help us avoid getting lost while camping in the woods. Frozen TV dinners, Kool-aid, and instant mashed potato were all things back then too. No one hunted or trapped animals for their food. Some of my friends lived on farms, so I can't say for sure whether they ever leaped out of a barn while shooting arrows at a target. I'm assuming they'd brag about it at school if they had.

I grew up on a farm, some people hunted or fished but they were the exception. I did do a lot of camping, backpacking and probably spent far more time outside than a lot of kids do today. But I don't recall anyone hunting with a bow, much less jumping off a barn into a pile of hay while firing an arrow at a target. Just because I grew up on a farm in the 20th century doesn't mean I was transported back to the 19th century with Huckleberry Finn.

 

[Velderan]

I grew up on a farm, some people hunted or fished but they were the exception. I did do a lot of camping, backpacking and probably spent far more time outside than a lot of kids do today. But I don't recall anyone hunting with a bow, much less jumping off a barn into a pile of hay while firing an arrow at a target. Just because I grew up on a farm in the 20th century doesn't mean I was transported back to the 19th century with Huckleberry Finn.

People I knew who lived on farms had plenty of food from the animals their farm raised, so hunting was an extremely inefficient use of their time. Oddly, I knew more people who went hunting (with a rifle) once I moved to the Twin Cities metro area as a teenager.

 

[billd91]

Well, maybe Wisconsin is different, but hunting and fishing were widespread passtimes where I grew up. Teenagers bowhunting? Check. Farmers hunting deer? Check. It wouldn't have surprised me a bit if more than half the boys in my class hunted every year. And it wasn't that farmers weren't raising enough food on their own - it was for the sport and the seasonal treat of venison steaks and sausage. Farmers may be busy but they had plenty of time for that.

Making our own candles and soaps, on the other hand, there may have been the occasional hobbyist, but they'd have been no more common hobbies than macramé or woodcarving. Something to take to the local church flea market or annoy relatives with as gifts.