D&D (2024) What type of ranger would your prefer for 2024?

[Shardstone]

Does anyone here actually read contemporary Fantasy fiction? Or manga/watch anime? Or play popular indie Fantasy games or popular mainline releases? This is the source of the millennial, gen z, and gen alpha definition of Fantasy. In most contemporary works, everyone in the story of note uses the magic system of the world. They either plug into it directly like a spellcaster, use it to aid something about them like their fighting or thievery skills, or use magic items or make pacts with things. Magic is absolutely everywhere. One of the biggest complaints of Game of Thrones was that it tempered down the magic, mistakenly assuming that the mainstream crowd watching the show didn't like it when in fact they did.

This is a big reason why the Ranger still casts spells. If you were to make a Ranger story in 2023, I'd imagine there'd be some magical stuff they use a lot throughout the book, and the character would be explored through the lens of their use of magic. All this talk about Appendix N is great, but we need to look at Sanderson, Jujutsu Kaisen, The Witcher, Elden Ring, etc for class inspiration IMO.

The genre has evolved a lot since the 70s. Sometimes, I think the people making first party D&D content are just grossly out of touch with the zeitgeist.

 

[Minigiant]

you mean people stick to baselines in D&D? your messing with us right?

The baseline is the social contract.

You should be able to add, subtract, or change the baseline. However most of it should remain intact if the game is advertised to the group as D&D.

 

[Minigiant]

Does anyone here actually read contemporary Fantasy fiction? Or manga/watch anime? Or play popular indie Fantasy games or popular mainline releases? This is the source of the millennial, gen z, and gen alpha definition of Fantasy. In most contemporary works, everyone in the story of note uses the magic system of the world. They either plug into it directly like a spellcaster, use it to aid something about them like their fighting or thievery skills, or use magic items or make pacts with things. Magic is absolutely everywhere. One of the biggest complaints of Game of Thrones was that it tempered down the magic, mistakenly assuming that the mainstream crowd watching the show didn't like it when in fact they did.

This is a big reason why the Ranger still casts spells. If you were to make a Ranger story in 2023, I'd imagine there'd be some magical stuff they use a lot throughout the book, and the character would be explored through the lens of their use of magic. All this talk about Appendix N is great, but we need to look at Sanderson, Jujutsu Kaisen, The Witcher, Elden Ring, etc for class inspiration IMO.

The genre has evolved a lot since the 70s. Sometimes, I think the people making first party D&D content are just grossly out of touch with the zeitgeist.

Nah.

The D&D ranger has spells because neither WOTC, TSR, nor the community wants to write up and follow a deep wilderness system with defined mechanics which matches the high fantasy that we all want as potentially possible in D&D..

..and no one trusts a DM to wing it because no one trusts most DMs to make a fun semi-accurate wilderness judgement call fot a high fantasy unless the group is a bunch of outdoorsmen.

 

[Shardstone]

Nah.

The D&D ranger has spells because neither WOTC, TSR, nor the community wants to write up and follow a deep wilderness system with defined mechanics which matches the high fantasy that we all want as potentially possible in D&D..

..and no one trusts a DM to wing it because no one trusts most DMs to make a fun semi-accurate wilderness judgement call fot a high fantasy unless the group is a bunch of outdoorsmen.

I wasn't posting the objective factual reason, but the reason why a lot of fans are happy with a spell-using ranger.

 

[Minigiant]

I wasn't posting the objective factual reason, but the reason why a lot of fans are happy with a spell-using ranger.

They are the same reason.

Players today want a ranger who can talk to animals, heal wounds, call a beast, alarm a campsite, shoot elemental arrows, or plant a quick trap.


...But I believe...most players today don't trust their DMs to adjudicate all those effects often as a check for a fun and meaningful result

 

[Emberashh]

Does anyone here actually read contemporary Fantasy fiction? Or manga/watch anime? Or play popular indie Fantasy games or popular mainline releases? This is the source of the millennial, gen z, and gen alpha definition of Fantasy. In most contemporary works, everyone in the story of note uses the magic system of the world. They either plug into it directly like a spellcaster, use it to aid something about them like their fighting or thievery skills, or use magic items or make pacts with things. Magic is absolutely everywhere. One of the biggest complaints of Game of Thrones was that it tempered down the magic, mistakenly assuming that the mainstream crowd watching the show didn't like it when in fact they did.

This is a big reason why the Ranger still casts spells. If you were to make a Ranger story in 2023, I'd imagine there'd be some magical stuff they use a lot throughout the book, and the character would be explored through the lens of their use of magic. All this talk about Appendix N is great, but we need to look at Sanderson, Jujutsu Kaisen, The Witcher, Elden Ring, etc for class inspiration IMO.

The genre has evolved a lot since the 70s. Sometimes, I think the people making first party D&D content are just grossly out of touch with the zeitgeist.

This is an issue of choice architecture. Peoples preferences are being, partially, dictated to them by writers who don't have any interest in not just making every fantasy character do magic, and unless a person has a reason to be invested in older entries in the genre, they aren't even going to be exposed to other ideas in the first place; they can't help but prefer the one thing given to them.

And keep in mind, I am a millenial, a younger one in fact, and not all of us who still care to read only read whatever happens to be popular.

And this issue also doesn't conflict with the already argued over issues of soft vs hard mundaneity. A lot of what gets called magic in and out of fiction doesn't actually have to be, so regardless of preference, you don't magic to capture what people are looking for.

 

[Incenjucar]

Does anyone here actually read contemporary Fantasy fiction? Or manga/watch anime? Or play popular indie Fantasy games or popular mainline releases? This is the source of the millennial, gen z, and gen alpha definition of Fantasy. In most contemporary works, everyone in the story of note uses the magic system of the world. They either plug into it directly like a spellcaster, use it to aid something about them like their fighting or thievery skills, or use magic items or make pacts with things. Magic is absolutely everywhere. One of the biggest complaints of Game of Thrones was that it tempered down the magic, mistakenly assuming that the mainstream crowd watching the show didn't like it when in fact they did.

This is a big reason why the Ranger still casts spells. If you were to make a Ranger story in 2023, I'd imagine there'd be some magical stuff they use a lot throughout the book, and the character would be explored through the lens of their use of magic. All this talk about Appendix N is great, but we need to look at Sanderson, Jujutsu Kaisen, The Witcher, Elden Ring, etc for class inspiration IMO.

The genre has evolved a lot since the 70s. Sometimes, I think the people making first party D&D content are just grossly out of touch with the zeitgeist.

Elder millennials have been around longer than shonen was popular in the West and our fantasy roots include things like Willow, Legend, and Conan. While magical warriors have been around forever, they didn't takeover to this degree before Harry Potter and Toonami. Even then, plenty of heroic characters minimize their contact with the supernatural; even wizard shows like Naruto have characters like Rock Lee who only goes magical late in the series.

 

[Minigiant]

This is an issue of choice architecture. Peoples preferences are being, partially, dictated to them by writers who don't have any interest in not just making every fantasy character do magic, and unless a person has a reason to be invested in older entries in the genre, they aren't even going to be exposed to other ideas in the first place; they can't help but prefer the one thing given to them.

And keep in mind, I am a millenial, a younger one in fact, and not all of us who still care to read only read whatever happens to be popular.

And this issue also doesn't conflict with the already argued over issues of soft vs hard mundaneity. A lot of what gets called magic in and out of fiction doesn't actually have to be, so regardless of preference, you don't magic to capture what people are looking for.

Elder millennials have been around longer than shonen was popular in the West and our fantasy roots include things like Willow, Legend, and Conan. While magical warriors have been around forever, they didn't takeover to this degree before Harry Potter and Toonami. Even then, plenty of heroic characters minimize their contact with the supernatural; even wizard shows like Naruto have characters like Rock Lee who only goes magical late in the series.

Like I said before it's lessthe fanbase likely higher fantasy and more a lot of DMs being lame, being, restrict, or otherwise unfun with wilderness stuff unless its blatantly magical.

"But I'm not unfun"

Statisacally, you likely wont let my level 20 ranger ask a squirrel a question without casting a spell first.

 

[Greg K]

Does anyone here actually read contemporary Fantasy fiction?

No

Or manga/watch anime?

Yes, but if I want something manga/anime, I am going to use Mutants & Masterminds 2e (with the Mecha & Manga supplement), a version of Big Eyes Small Mouth, OVA, or either Icon: Assembled or BASH: UE (the last two with Mecha & Manga as a reference). I'd also most likely recommend the first three to anyone I know that wants something manga/anime in style.

 

[ECMO3]

Simple question, do you prefer spell-less ranger or spellcasting ranger?

That is, if they could manage to make a decent spell-less ranger. They still need to make decent spellcasting ranger.

Definitely more spells for me.

I have no interest at all in a spell-free Ranger. At its earliest iteration 1E Rangers had both Wizard (magic-user) and Druid spells and magic is a core defining element of the class for me. A spell-free nature-warrior theme should be handled by non-magic classes like Rogue, Barbarian or Fighter, perhaps with a subclass specifically for that if none of the current options fit the bill. But for me it would really screw up the Ranger class and theme if they made it non-magical.

I would actually like to see it go the other way with some of their non-casting abilities (Favored terrain, Natural explorer) replaced with features more magical in nature. Tasha's did some of this with Primal Awareness and Nature's Veil and I would like to see more along those lines.