D&D (2024) UA 6 Paladin Analysis from Treantmonk

[Clint_L]

pretty much the same, just for the half-caster part.
also with added 5HP per level of default LoH.

That way, paladin only has two "magic" options. Smite and Heal. And both are from one resource pool.
If Smite would be too much burst power in this variant, there is always option to limit it to once per turn, as sneak attack.

I don’t need to run the numbers to tell you that that lay on hands pool is WAY too big. Setting offence aside, this would instantly become the only tank worth having, levels 1-20.

 

[Horwath]

I don’t need to run the numbers to tell you that that lay on hands pool is WAY too big. Setting offence aside, this would instantly become the only tank worth having, levels 1-20.

how is it too big?
Every spell slot was turned into healing with formula of 5+5×spell slot level. And since smite is 1d8+1d8×spell slot level, it fits.

Now if you argue that healing per (bonus)action can be too much, I could agree, Then it can be said that max healing in an instance can be 5 or 10 HP per paladin level. Same way smite can be limited to once per turn.

 

[Clint_L]

Okay, math it is. Since these are all hardcore tanks, I'll have them use their ASIs to max constitution (fighter would probably grab toughness too, but whatever). Assume AC goes up a couple points each step (less for barbarian because they aren't wearing any armour...though if they were going for maximum tankiness they would. But whatever).

Level 1 goblin test
Paladin: AC 19, HP 18 (effective): survives against goblin 11 rounds
Fighter: AC 19, HP 19.5 (effective): survives 12 rounds
Barbarian: AC 15, HP 15, survives 11 rounds
Variant paladin: AC 19, HP 38 (effective): survives 23 rounds

Level 5 owlbear test
Paladin: AC 21, HP 79 (effective): survives against owlbear 9 rounds
Fighter: AC 21, HP 64.5 (effective): survives 7 rounds
Barbarian: AC 16, HP 60, survives 8 rounds
Variant paladin: AC 21, HP 149 (effective): survives 18 rounds

Level 11 cyclops test
Paladin: AC 23, HP 180 (effective): survives against cyclops 13 rounds
Fighter: AC 23, HP 141.5 (effective): survives 10 rounds
Barbarian: AC 18, HP 137, survives 12 rounds
Variant paladin: AC 23, HP 325 (effective): survives 24 rounds

Anyhow, you see the trend - your variant has about twice the survivability as the current tank classes.

 

[Horwath]

Okay, math it is.

you just proved that best healer has biggest survivalbility when self-healing.
Try that with Life cleric and you will see similar results to paladin.

 

[Charlaquin]

you just proved that best healer has biggest survivalbility when self-healing.
Try that with Life cleric and you will see similar results to paladin.

Healing is life cleric’s whole shtick though. The Paladin is primarily a tank with off-healing capabilities, it should not be able to heal as effectively as the primary healer class with off-tanking capabilities, let alone one who chose a subclass entirely dedicated to being even better at healing.

 

[Clint_L]

you just proved that best healer has biggest survivalbility when self-healing.
Try that with Life cleric and you will see similar results to paladin.

Life cleric can't tank, though - not while putting everything into healing. To tank effectively, you have to be a threat - the life cleric would be standing there just healing themselves - in other words, they can be safely ignored. Your variant paladin has all that survivability while still doing paladin damage. And assuming they don't need to survive for 20-30 rounds (when do fights go that long?), you've also given them a huge offensive boost.

So let's say we just leave the survivability of the 2014 paladin at level 20 (100 HP worth of LoH). Your variant paladin still has 280 extra points of LoH that they can turn into smite damage - that's equivalent to 28 level 1 smites, but you have actually buffed smite, so that they can do 6d8 smites 9.3 times - the current paladin can only get to 5d8 by burning a level 5 spell slot twice.

So you've created a monster tank that can choose to have incredible survivability, or incredible offence, or whatever combination of the two is needed. And that's assuming you limit smite to just the bonus action, per the 2024 rules; it's unclear from your description.

I don't think this is at all balanced, and I think the last thing paladins need is a monster buff.

 

[Horwath]

Life cleric can't tank, though - not while putting everything into healing. To tank effectively, you have to be a threat - the life cleric would be standing there just healing themselves - in other words, they can be safely ignored. Your variant paladin has all that survivability while still doing paladin damage. And assuming they don't need to survive for 20-30 rounds (when do fights go that long?), you've also given them a huge offensive boost.

So let's say we just leave the survivability of the 2014 paladin at level 20 (100 HP worth of LoH). Your variant paladin still has 280 extra points of LoH that they can turn into smite damage - that's equivalent to 28 level 1 smites, but you have actually buffed smite, so that they can do 6d8 smites 9.3 times - the current paladin can only get to 5d8 by burning a level 5 spell slot twice.

So you've created a monster tank that can choose to have incredible survivability, or incredible offence, or whatever combination of the two is needed. And that's assuming you limit smite to just the bonus action, per the 2024 rules; it's unclear from your description.

I don't think this is at all balanced, and I think the last thing paladins need is a monster buff.

If that 20th level paladin burns all slots on healing, it would be 260HP worth of healing.
I just rounded up th d8(4.5) to 5 and converted all slots to 5+5 per spell level worth of LoH. Consider that a compensation for loss of versatility of having only one spell basically your whole career.
And since smite is 1d8+1d8×spell level(why maxed at 5d8? I dont know since paladin can get 5th level spells, max should be 6d8) that translates into 5HPs of LoH per 1d8 smite damage.
And max smite damage correlates with max smite damage that you would have on the same level with using spell slots.

If single instance of LoH if too much then a limit of 5 + 5×paladin level can be implemented.
Same with one smite per turn only.