D&D (2024) One D&D Survey Feedback: Weapon Mastery Spectacular; Warlock and Wizard Mixed Reactions

Jeremy Crawford discusses the results of the Packet 5 Survey:

• Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was. This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point.
• Barbarian scored well, particularly the individual features, average satisfaction of 80% for each feature. Beserker got 84% satisfaction, while the 2014 Beserker in the 2020 Big Class Survey got 29% satisfaction.
• Fighter received well, overall 75% satisfaction. Champion scored 54% in the Big Class Survey, but this new one got 74%.
• Sorcerer in the Big Class Survey got 60%, this UA Sorcerer got 72%. Lots of enthusiasm for the Metamagic revisions. Careful Spell got 92% satisfaction. Twin Spell was the exception, at 60%. Draconic Sorcerer got 73%, new Dragon Wings feature was not well received but will be fixed back to being on all the time by the return to 2014 Aubclass progression.
• Class specific Spell lists are back in UA 7 coming soon, the unified Spell lists are out.
• Warlock feedback reflected mixed feelings in the player base. Pact magic is coming back in next iteration. Next Warlock will be more like 2014, Mystic Arcanum will be a core feature, but will still see some adjustments based on feedback to allow for more frequent use of Spells. Eldritch Invocations were well received. Crawford felt it was a good test, because they learned what players felt. They found the idiosyncracy of the Warlock is exactly what people like about it, so theybare keeping it distinct. Next version will get even more Eldritch Invocation options.
• Wizard got a mixed reception. Biggest problem people had was wanting a Wizard specific Spell list, not a shared Arcane list that made the Wizard less distinct. Evoker well received.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

So all the sound and fury about class specific spells is gone. That gives me little hope for paladin smite remaining a spell, viscous mockery is going back to a 1d4, and the sorcerer and wizard specific spells are gone.

We don’t know any of this.

 

[Remathilis]

Was this a general thing? I thought it was just a warlock thing, and we haven't seen the new Warlock.

I'm referring to abilities that were recharged on a short rest becoming prof bonus per long rest. (A good example is dragonborn breath weapon or bladesinger's bladesong). My assumption was that WotC was phasing out short rest recharge due to how unreliable it was. But no, its fired back on all cylinders in packet 6 and looks to keep going.

Cunning action?

I assume you mean cunning strike? I mean, I love it and think it's a strong upgrade for Rogues, but after everything so far, I'm not going to get too attached to it just yet. I'll admit it's a long shot, but I can still see a chance it doesn't meet the "Sparks Joy" threshold or gets neutered to the point of uselessness. Rogues aren't allowed to have nice toys.

Or look at the changes to some of the problem subclasses. Can you honestly tell me that berserker barbarians aren't greatly improved, for example? I dunno - the things that you are really behind were always unlikely to make it past the survey; WotC acknowledged right up front that the changes to wildshape and warlock becoming a half-caster were going to be divisive. I feel for you - it sucks to see the things we like not make the cut.

I consider fixing berserker on par with fixing beastmaster: Tasha did the latter in a supplement so it's not a major change. Nor is rebalancing Countersong or other touched up class features. That's errata. Major changes are things that change the feel of the class and so far, the only one I've seen with traction is weapon mastery. Everything else just feels like the integration of Tasha into the core books, which I don't feel warranted 9+ playtests.

 

[Remathilis]

We don’t know any of this.

Know? Correct. But I said "I have a feeling" because I don't see how class specific spells can be more powerful than the generic list if there is no generic list.

 

[Remathilis]

The Sorcerer and Wizard Spells seem to have been received well, even if people wanted then on a Class Spell list. Smite as a Spell might make it yet.

I'm not willing to gamble the house on it.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

That wasn't your agurment. Your argument was that it is strong. It is worth about .7 DPR. Context matters, but I don't consider that strong. If your new argument is that increasing die sizes are more fun to roll, then fair enough - that's your subjective experience and who am I to judge? But objectively speaking, flex is very weak compared to other masteries, which is why it was rejected.

Clint, kindly don't misrepresent my arguments or Jeremy's reasons.

First, I said it was FINE and to leave it alone. I didn't say it was strong or superior. I gave an example about how it was valid and competitive.

Second, Jeremy said essentially that "Flex, mathematically, is one of the most powerful of the properties" and I feel that this has merit. I like it for the reasons I mentioned. But he also said that they "get" the feedback from people saying they want tactical options and want Flex to "feel" like it is more than just the number going up. And that feedback is why they are looking at revisiting it. So the decision to revisit is about feelings, not facts. But those feelings are valid.

You can disagree about the mechanical argument. However, I agree with the professional game designers on this one. But I am also glad that despite the designers' feelings on the mechanic, they are honoring the desires of the masses to revisit it.

To express a bit more on that point of appreciation, despite my frustration about rolling back some of the cool designs we saw in the past, I actually really respect that they are looking at rolling them back. Whether Wildshape templates, Pact Magic, or Flex, or others. They told the public they would roll it back if the public didn't like it, and are being honest and are keeping their word. They gave us the parameters for playtest approval, let us vote, and are working with the results. If something doesn't cut the mustard with the community, they revisit the rule. Even if they roll back some of the designs that I really liked, I have to respect them. They have gone above and beyond, telling the public that D&D belongs to the community in many ways. They want to be stewards with us. They value the community. The designers are doing the heavy work after the suits effed up so much.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I would bet a lot of those spells stay and just say class only

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think requiring spending a sorcery point is a house rule that inflicts a basic needs tax. I'd rather house rule not requiring it, for both thematic and balance reasons. The Sorcerer doesn't require material components, implements, or spellbooks, and they lose out on a handful of spells, and get other Sorcerer spells in return (I am assuming more Sorcerer-specific spells, whether designers, 3rd parties, or I make them up).

I don’t think casting Gate is a basic need for the class. Being able to do it without material components makes them special, but saving a resource by using components makes it feel like they’re capable of learning.

I cannot think of a sorcerer PC I’ve enjoyed playing or playing with that didn’t have a little bit of training to get better, and learning how thier magic works, story.

 

[Neonchameleon]

But every other full caster class gets the exact same thing, plus more and better class features.

Every other full caster class doesn't get "the exact same thing". They get worse casting. So they get other class features that are supposed to make up the gap. Or are you really saying that the current sorcerer spell list is equal to the wizard one, and the fact that the current sorcerer knows fewer spells than the wizard gets to prepare at any one time means that their magic is as good?

I've said before and I'll say again. A new spell level is literally the best class feature in the game. And wizards get the best casting in the game. So they have the best version of the best class feature in the game at every odd level. But somehow this isn't enough for you?

 

[Parmandur]

I'm not willing to gamble the house on it.

It would be thr strange subject for a gamble at any price.

 

[Remathilis]

I would bet a lot of those spells stay and just say class only

Why?

Let's take Paladin for a moment. They got the divine list (which they shared with clerics and sometimes bard) plus a few unique spells (the smite spells and find steed). It was important to do that because if you put find steed and smites onto the divine list (as they originally were) then clerics and anyone with the divine list got them sooner and better than a paladin did.

Now there is no divine list. There are only class lists and each one is unique. And if Find Steed is only on the paladin list (and no other) then what else do you need? It's already only on the paladin spell list. It's redundant.

Of course, the reason is to stealth-nerf magic secrets, magic initiate or other abilities that poach from spell lists. It's to tell a bard "You can pick any spell off the paladin spell list, except these". Personally, any "spell" that shouldn't be poachable needs to be a class feature and not a spell, but what do I know...