D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

[Micah Sweet]

I do miss the Astral Sea and the 4e Cosmology and the Nentir vale.

Its a good setting and I would be happy to see it brought back as an alternative cosmology. I did not like as a wholesale replacement. 5e had it as an alternative, and I would live to see that built upon more.

 

[darjr]

Oh and the Elemental Chaos!

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't disagree, it's always best to temper one's expectations. But is DM's Guild really that much more reliable by comparison? Most of what I've found there has been...a mixed bag, to put it lightly.

Everything is a mixed bag of quality, absolutely including WotC. They're no better. Like any other product, do your research and make an informed decision.

 

[overgeeked]

I don't disagree, it's always best to temper one's expectations. But is DM's Guild really that much more reliable by comparison? Most of what I've found there has been...a mixed bag, to put it lightly.

It's a matter of volume and Sturgeon's law, i.e. 90% of everything is crap. WotC puts out 5 books a year...and 90% of them are crap. DM's Guild puts out 5 books a minute...and 90% of them are crap. So there are more gems on the DM's Guild than WotC has produced books for 5E...and likely in total...across all its various endeavors. The trouble is separating the wheat from the chaff.

 

[darjr]

Everything is a mixed bag of quality, absolutely including WotC. They're no better. Like any other product, do your research and make an informed decision.

I think generally stuff from WotC hits a high bar. Even if sometimes I didn’t like it.

 

[CleverNickName]

There are real gems at DMSGuild.

Absolutely! I'm not trying to tear DM's Guild down.

Nor am I trashing Wizards of the Coast...they have real gems too. That's all I'm trying to say.

 

[Zaukrie]

I do miss the Astral Sea and the 4e Cosmology and the Nentir vale.

Torog was the best. I've considered running 5e in the Nentir vale, but haven't yet.

 

[darjr]

I have to add some things I like about 4e. Just cause I feel I need too.

It’s genius in its approach, the 1st PHB is like a very light simple game upon first interacting with it. While still being the actual rules you’ll use in play. I dint think any edition has done that as well, not even B/X or the red box. It then has an organic way for you to wade in deeper and almost unconsciously become more expert at it.

Balance was fantastic. I still appreciate and miss that even now.

Interaction between players was extraordinary fun. And it did what it set out to do, players downtime during combat was almost nill.

There are more things but I’m going to post this.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think generally stuff from WotC hits a high bar. Even if sometimes I didn’t like it.

I really don't agree. It just mostly looks nicer.

 

[Zaukrie]

I have to add some things I like about 4e. Just cause I feel I need too.

It’s genius in its approach, the 1st PHB is like a very light simple game upon first interacting with it. While still being the actual rules you’ll use in play. I dint think any edition has done that as well, not even B/X or the red box. It then has an organic way for you to wade in deeper and almost unconsciously become more expert at it.

Balance was fantastic. I still appreciate and miss that even now.

Interaction between players was extraordinary fun. And it did what it set out to do, players downtime during combat was almost nill.

There are more things but I’m going to post this.

The interaction was a a huge difference, IMO. Also, so easy to run for DMs (other than all the reactions, which could be hard, but I miss some of them greatly). I mostly mean from a layout perspective (in terms of ease). And so easy to level up monsters or make your own with their tools. So easy.