What is the single best science fiction novel of all time?

Unless Color Out of Space has a much different plot than I think, the similarities are a similar inciting incident. But I would say large portions of speculative fiction use the same handful of inciting incidents.
That's fair.
Heck, Terry Brooks made an entire career out of putting his spin on other writers' ideas.
Probably why I don't care for his work.
Also, Annihilation is the best D&D novel of all time.
I'll have to take your word for it. I've bounced off it a few times. Saw the movie. That was okay. We made it through to the screaming bear then my kid freaked and we had to step out. Despite liking horror movies, that was a bit much for a 14-year-old.
 

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If nothing else, the implicit sexism and racism in its white-savior plot is kind of terrible.
To be fair, the travelogue the Fremen are seemingly directly inspired by is about Muslims from the Caucuses, who would be conventionally considered white even in the 1960s (there's actually a better article about it somewhere, but I couldn't find it in a hurry, sorry). There's still a big colonialist or even Orientalist vibe though with the guy from this imperial culture deciding to join the "salt of the earth locals", whether his ethnicity or not, adopt their ways, and course be much better at all that than they are.

And yeah the sexism... yeah... there's no getting around that.
 

I'll have to take your word for it. I've bounced off it a few times. Saw the movie.
I enjoy the movie -- and saw it first -- but the book is fairly different and the sequels make it even weirder and probably nothing Lovecraft ever would have thought about. (Unless the mythos overlaps with government bureaucracy.)
 

To be fair, the travelogue the Fremen are seemingly directly inspired by is about Muslims from the Caucuses, who would be conventionally considered white even in the 1960s ...

That would be a better defense if the point was made in the text, but it was not. Instead the Fremen are presented as a separate cultural group that is largely looked down on by the Great Houses (representing Imperial culture).

But, even if we leave that out - foreign dude who is not of their faith shows up and becomes their messiah. Not a great look.
 

Actually, you ought to. Because lots of well-read and avid consumers of sci-fi may recognize its historical importance to the genre, but still find that it isn't actually a great read.

If nothing else, the implicit sexism and racism in its white-savior plot is kind of terrible.
your comment is uninformed and reductionist. If you are that interested read the book. I am not here to explain or educate you.
 

Sorry I'm late to the thread.

I love sci fi books in general, but I think the best ones are the classics--I'm talking LeGuin, Huxley, Bradbury, Orwell, Asimov. I really appreciate the cautionary tales of the future, the struggle of man vs. technology, the things we lose (identity, security, community) in the service of scientific advancement...more than any other genre of fiction, sci-fi takes a critical look at humanity and the direction it is taking.

My favorite is "Frankenstein" by Mary Shelley. It's the best (albeit fictional) examination of ethics in science, and the consequences of ambition and curiosity. And it has the best line ever spoken by a villain: "I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other."

For those interested in my Top Ten:

10. "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" by Jules Verne
9. "The Foundation Trilogy" by Isaac Asimov
8. "Journey to the Center of the Earth" by Jules Verne
7. "The Time Machine" by H.G. Wells
6. "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley
5. "Fahrenheit 451" by Ray Bradbury
4. "I, Robot" by Isaac Asimov
3. "Slaughterhouse Five" by Kurt Vonnegut
2. "The Left Hand of Darkness" by Ursula LeGuin
1. "Frankenstein" by Mary Shelley

Honorable Mention:
"Flowers for Algernon" by Daniel Keyes
"Cat's Cradle" by Kurt Vonnegut
"The Martian Chronicles" by Ray Bradbury
 

Sure, but I think it's okay for there to be some dispute over what those works are in sci-fi particularly.

Dune, you call a foundational work, but it doesn't appear until 1965, and by that point, SF was a very well-established genre that had, even by the more narrow standards, been around for 30+ years (it not much, much longer).

Personally I would say Dune wasn't quite foundational, as much as hugely influential on SF, but not even nearly to the point Lord of the Rings is in the fantasy genre. Most of Dune's influence is limited to the first book, and is more about how you think about an SF setting, rather than direct elements influencing people, or the construction of the story influencing people.

I mean, I think there's an entire giant swathe of SF, including the vast majority of harder-SF which isn't meaningfully influenced by Dune. Other stuff like, Niven and Pournelle's work is very superficially influenced (Niven likes a good Dune reference and "we'll go back to aristocracy and monarchs in the future" was I think given a big boost by Dune, having fallen from favour). And sure some is profoundly influenced.

I don't say this to criticise Dune. It's truly majestic, insane, daring, amazing book that I think every SF fan should read (though I do think the travelogue that influenced it should get a little more credit than it does). It's had significant pop-culture influence even before the recent movie, and I think it's had huge influence particularly on the kind of science-fantasy you appeared to be disparaging (or at least attempting to separate off), Star Wars and so on - I think without Dune (and both Jodowrowsky's failed attempt and Lynch's quasi-successful) a lot of movie science-fantasy looks very different and/or probably wouldn't even exist. Stuff that takes little actual from Dune, like say, the terrible but amusing Jupiter Rising with Channing Tatum, I don't think that movie would exist or like that without Dune. Star Wars would be very different I think too - it probably would be more Flash Gordon and less mystical.

But what I'm saying is, despite being solidly weird science-fiction, Dune's biggest direct influence has been on science-fantasy and to a lesser extent, space-opera-y sci-fi (rather than epic SF, like it is). And that's it's a very important SF novel, but not foundational to the entire genre. I mean, I could list dozens of major SF books from the 1980s and 1990s, for example, which I think would be totally the same if Dune had never existed (all of Kim Stanley Robinson's work, for example). I also think that because of it's influence being disproportionately on science fantasy rather than sci-fi, people sometimes see it as science fantasy or "less sci-fi", which is not really fair but understandable.

I'm not suggesting you have to agree with me, but do you understand where I'm coming from on this?
true. I assumed when I posted my reply to this thread that it would be honored and respected for what it was. What I didnt expect was that I would have to justify my choice.

So I will re-iterate once more: Dune. The best sci-fi novel of all time. You don't need to like it, you don't need to agree, but don't disparage my choice.
 

That would be a better defense if the point was made in the text, but it was not. Instead the Fremen are presented as a separate cultural group that is largely looked down on by the Great Houses (representing Imperial culture).

But, even if we leave that out - foreign dude who is not of their faith shows up and becomes their messiah. Not a great look.
reductionist and clearly you did not read it analytically and didnt get the point. Armchair criticism is not critical analysis. Paul is not a hero, he is not a "white-savior" he is the product of generations of carefully selective breeding. Herbert's point, which you fail to grasp, is that it is a cautionary tale about following political figures, messiahs and religious movements. Things that almost 50 years later are still very relevant to our world problems. Cheers.
 

Yeah, but Lovecraft was a horrible person, and it shows in his stories, when his prose wasn't all that great to begin with. If there's one person who was highly influential on genre fiction, but deserves heavy criticism, it is Lovecraft.
Yeah, lets just cancel him too.
 

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