D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Parmandur]

The bolded bit is, I think, what's being questioned; as if the rules can't be functionally used they might as well not be there.

They can be functionally used, and work for what theybwere designed to do. It's like saying that a car doesn't have wheels because it doesn't fly.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So wait, you're arguing that tents offer no protection because it's not defined by the book? As if no one knows what a "tent" is in real life and extrapolate? That somehow not explaining how a tent works is a failing of the rules? Are they also supposed to explain the purpose and uses of a shovel?

They should definitely say how much you can dig with a shovel in what period of time, because how many people even know that?

I did bloody archaeology, and I've dug god knows how much, and I couldn't tell you how much you can dig how fast. But it seems like it might matter if you want to do "man vs nature" stuff, doesn't it? You seem to be acting like half your players are farmers, and maybe half YOUR players are farmers, but most people's aren't, not in 2023. I daresay an awful lot of players did have rural experiences back in Wisconsin in the 1970s though. But even then we had whole book on wilderness survival, didn't we?

Wilderness Survival Guide, 1986 - you're telling me that they made this book even though everyone already knows this stuff?

Saying what a D&D tent looks like and actually does is a reasonable request, because we're obviously not dealing with the same kind of tents you can buy at a shop now, and even then, a significant proportion of the population, and the poorer and less-white part, has never used a tent.

This isn't my first rodeo with people making assumptions, note. I've been on the wrong end of them before - I've made assumptions about something that was barely described in an RPG, assumptions that turned out to be very wrong, because I was going on my personal experience.

 

[Oofta]

The problem with making that kind of ruralist assumption is that for a large fraction of your players, it won't be true.

I mean, it might for a bucket, but a medieval tent? I doubt even you could describe to me a medieval two-man tent adequately.

What you really need is rules for how they're used and what they help with. But D&D basically doesn't have any survival rules except "DM makes them up on the spot", so it's all a bit silly.

A "medieval tent" for two is not exactly hard to imagine. It's ... wait for it ... a canvas tent that sleeps two. If anyone is that picky they can always look it up, but I can't imagine anyone actually bothering to do that. What's next? Do we have to explain what clothes are? After all, they didn't have zippers, how will people ever know how pants work!

There is no way they're going to waste time on explaining minutiae, and I'm glad they don't.

 

[Vaalingrade]

You know what could have fixed this?

That modular design they definitely never promised.

Masters of the Wild 5e; nice thin, inexpensive to print book that would monetize the hell out of some of those delicious players better than not having rules for most things.

 

[Lanefan]

I'd say that you are confusing the concept of encumbrance with the D&D implementation of encumbrance (which is almost unchanged in 50 years when actually used). There are better versions of encumbrance out there, that among other things help you visualise the character. Anti-Hammerspace uses bulk not weight and makes the character much more visual, and the Blades in the Dark system rewards gives you plot coupons depending on your encumbrance weight and class (you take a light, medium, or heavy load and then get a number of uses of class-appropriate equipment depending on your load with how visibly you're equipped being based on the load you chose).

From what little I know, some of those systems come at (a to me unacceptable) cost of handwaving what that equipment actually is. You're in the field and for some reason you need a crowbar right now? If you've got an equipment use or plot coupon left, then - poof - you've got a crowbar (and one less equipment use); which means you don't have to think/guess in advance as to what you're going to need and further, can't be stuck without that vital piece of equipment until-unless you run out of coupons.

To me this blows away the whole pre-planning and preparation aspect of play.

No thanks.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Also, due to how tents have no rules and how punitive the armor rules are for donning it, there is no functional difference between sleeping in a tent in your union suit and sleeping buck-naked under the stars.

 

[Lanefan]

I think the point being made is that it... doesn't really matter what the point of an encumbrance mechanic is, if that mechanic isn't producing gameplay that players find interesting or compelling or enjoyable.

Except that the alternative - unlimited carrying capacity for all - is even less interesting-compelling-enjoyable.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

A "medieval tent" for two is not exactly hard to imagine. It's ... wait for it ... a canvas tent that sleeps two. If anyone is that picky they can always look it up, but I can't imagine anyone actually bothering to do that. What's next? Do we have to explain what clothes are? After all, they didn't have zippers, how will people ever know how pants work!

There is no way they're going to waste time on explaining minutiae, and I'm glad they don't.

Yes absolutely you should explain what medieval clothes are!

Absolutely you should! There's an extremely good reason people still talk about Aurora's Whole Realms guide.

Basically your attitude seems to be "Well I know so I didn't give two shake's of a lamb's tail whether a kid who isn't familiar with medieval equipment know!", which is just not a good attitude.

It's actually counter-productive to precisely the kind of D&D you seem to like too, because it excludes people who don't have that knowledge independently of D&D from engaging with that.

D&D used to be full of wonderful tables and descriptions and so on, but you apparently want it to be just dashed-off stuff that barely even acknowledges equipment exists? I'm really surprised to hear that.

 

[Vaalingrade]

which means you don't have to think/guess in advance as to what you're going to need and further, can't be stuck without that vital piece of equipment until-unless you run out of coupons.

The perfect system.

 

[Lanefan]

Mundane tents provide shelter, it's why they're on the equipment list. But, they are also heavy. Having a wizard is more convenient but they have to save a 3rd level spell for it. Goodberry is an excellent option, certainly, but you're a bit stuck without a druid or any season other than summer.

In fairness, I've seen berries (or similar) in the wild in every season except the depths of winter; so Goodberry should work most of the time.

It's okay if you're not interested in Man vs. Nature conflict. Some of us are, and there is shockingly little tedium in the decisions.

Agreed.