D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Mannahnin]

I don't out of hand dismiss. How things work are easy to google and will answer questions no rule book is going to cover. It's also details I've never seen have any importance over decades of play. The rules simply cannot explain how everything works, it would be a waste of page count that would likely just engender more arguments.

Yes, you out of hand dismiss things. You've scoffed at the idea of providing stats for things which exist in real life. And engaged in hyperbole to mock people for the suggestion that a bit more detail could be useful. Almost all your comments in this discussion about mundane camp supplies have indulged in the fallacy of the excluded middle, where you act as if the only possibilities are the status quo, which you find adequate, or exhaustive paragraphs of fiddly detail.

We have stats for and basic descriptive details for caltrops in the 5E PH. Why not for a tent? One sentence of description, a cost and weight really seems a bit bare-bones for something we expect to have some use and to justify the 20lbs of carrying capacity taken up. If we want players to engage in the book keeping of encumbrance, the rules should give at least some minimal details to explain why and show the benefit.

 

[Oofta]

Fine. I do have one final set questions, because you haven't actually addressed it yet.

What, to you, is the benefit of having shovels, tents, bedrolls, mess kits, and the like in the rulebook?

Does anyone reference their entries in the rulebook for anything beyond cost and weight?

I won't debate your response. I just want to know what you think people are getting out of these things.

It's there for people that want it to equip their characters. Because most people in my experience understand the basic functionality even if it isn't spelled out in detail.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I would point out that, based on some other threads, this is apparently not the default for all groups. (I mean it is my default...)

To me the second we're into a game with hit points we're into one that works more like an action movie than it does the real world. And once we have a set price for soap? I can walk down to my local corner shop in three minutes, and they have about four different soaps and another few shower gels. And if I walk another few minutes to the supermarket there's far more and it is cheaper. Actively having one set price for soap in the PHB? That's something being specified as not working the way it does in the real world. Which is why I much prefer outside a specific setting book and the shops there to have it either not listed or included in things like the adventurer's kit or inn fees.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I now understand that the only reason necessary to have any item inclused on an equipment list is to give players stuff to equip.

If only they'd thought to include toilet paper, tampons and nose hair trimmers..

 

[nevin]

On the one hand I see how this kind of fight could happen.

On the other, isn't there a whole "improvised weapons" thing in 5e specifically built for this kind of stuff.

Either way it sounds like more of a DM/player social dynamic issue than an equipment system issue.

The same player who pulls out a shovel from "camp supplies" could pull a shovel or some other amechanical object from their character sheet (or just a rock off the ground) to use as a weapon. And the same DM who questions the presence of a shovel in the "camp supplies" is just as likely to quibble about retrieving it from the pack, or whether the shovel or other amechanical object is big enough or the right shape to use as a weapon, etc.

Thar said, I can sympathize with a certain amount of discomfort with using a "Schrodinger's satchel" approach to equipment rather than a detailed inventory.

It's the same discomfort I feel whenever I think about how a caster's materials pouch actually works.

I don't disagree. I ignore resource management games for the most part unless they become important to the game. I hate dealing with nitpicky details and am most likely to just go sure and flow with it i when the player says I pull out a shovel. But I have played with the dark sith DM's who'd rather destroy thier game by arguing the little details till it's dead. I once had to leave a game and go to the library and get a book on Midevil armor to stop a Dm from declaring that Plate mail was effectively Jousting plate and you couldn't bend over or stand up without help. the only time he'd ever seen Plate mail was in moves where they Jousted and he thought that's what it was. It's hard enough to DM when you don't know the rules but if the rules don't give you a clear idea of what the equipment is supposed to do then your in a double bind if you don't know. And not everyone has been camping or even wants to go camping.

 

[nevin]

I now understand that the only reason necessary to have any item inclused on an equipment list is to give players stuff to equip.

If only they'd thought to include toilet paper..

and wet wipes.....

 

[Oofta]

Yes, you out of hand dismiss things. Almost all your comments in this discussion about mundane camp supplies have indulged in the fallacy of the excluded middle, where you scoff at the idea of providing stats for things which exist in real life. Or engage in hyperbole to mock people for the suggestion that a bit more detail could be useful. You act as if the only possibilities are the status quo, which you find adequate, or exhaustive paragraphs of fiddly detail.

We have stats for and basic descriptive details for caltrops in the 5E PH. Why not for a tent? One sentence of description, a cost and weight really seems a bit bare-bones for something we expect to have some use and to justify the 20lbs of carrying capacity taken up. If we want players to engage in the book keeping of encumbrance, the rules should give at least some minimal details to explain why and show the benefit.

I simply disagree, no reason to be insulting.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I simply disagree, no reason to be insulting.

There were no actual insults in there. It was a bullet by bullet description of your conduct.

 

[nevin]

I don't appreciate the assumption that nobody cares about logistics, or is right to do so.

no the statement was meant to show i don't care about record keeping games. Wizard spell pouches, days of rations etc. I hate being the DM resource management office.

 

[nevin]

There were no actual insults in there. It was a bullet by bullet description of your conduct.

Maybe I missed something I didn't see any of the Mocking or Hyperbole that was mentioned. He even tried to end the conversation by stating they weren't going to agree. At that point I'd say the person that won't let it go is misbehaving. It's been a long thread maybe I missed something maybe I didn't but Oofta doesn't usually mock people so I'd imagine that was insulting.