D&D (2024) One D&D Survey Feedback: Weapon Mastery Spectacular; Warlock and Wizard Mixed Reactions

Jeremy Crawford discusses the results of the Packet 5 Survey:

• Weapon Mastery at 80% approval, and all options except for Flex scored similarly. Crawford says that Flex is mathematically one of the most powerful properties, but will need some attention because people didn't feel like it was. This feature is in the 2024 PHB for 6 Classes, guaranteed at this point.
• Barbarian scored well, particularly the individual features, average satisfaction of 80% for each feature. Beserker got 84% satisfaction, while the 2014 Beserker in the 2020 Big Class Survey got 29% satisfaction.
• Fighter received well, overall 75% satisfaction. Champion scored 54% in the Big Class Survey, but this new one got 74%.
• Sorcerer in the Big Class Survey got 60%, this UA Sorcerer got 72%. Lots of enthusiasm for the Metamagic revisions. Careful Spell got 92% satisfaction. Twin Spell was the exception, at 60%. Draconic Sorcerer got 73%, new Dragon Wings feature was not well received but will be fixed back to being on all the time by the return to 2014 Aubclass progression.
• Class specific Spell lists are back in UA 7 coming soon, the unified Spell lists are out.
• Warlock feedback reflected mixed feelings in the player base. Pact magic is coming back in next iteration. Next Warlock will be more like 2014, Mystic Arcanum will be a core feature, but will still see some adjustments based on feedback to allow for more frequent use of Spells. Eldritch Invocations were well received. Crawford felt it was a good test, because they learned what players felt. They found the idiosyncracy of the Warlock is exactly what people like about it, so theybare keeping it distinct. Next version will get even more Eldritch Invocation options.
• Wizard got a mixed reception. Biggest problem people had was wanting a Wizard specific Spell list, not a shared Arcane list that made the Wizard less distinct. Evoker well received.

 

[Pauln6]

Fighters clearly need some tactical knacks. Little tricks they can pull that other classes can't. Things like bonuses to initiative, shuffling their position in the initiative, using remaining movement off turn, building camp so that intruders have disadvantage on stealth, bonuses to intimidation with weapon displays, impressing commoners and soldiers, etc.

 

[Mistwell]

If the game being popular is the end of the conversation why even talk about it to begin with?

The game being popular is indeed the end of the conversation PURELY in response to your claim "When people don't feel like they need to be there they eventually don't show up anymore unless they're engaged with something other than the game." Let's not pretend this is about the general topic of this thread, or pretend someone said "This is the best any RPG could ever be" or something absurd like that.

Yes, there isn't much to discuss when you claim people are just leaving the game in meaningful numbers over this issue when all evidence suggests that's not happening and you have zero contrary evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, not no evidence at all.

 

[Incenjucar]

The game being popular is indeed the end of the conversation PURELY in response to your claim "When people don't feel like they need to be there they eventually don't show up anymore unless they're engaged with something other than the game." Let's not pretend this is about the general topic of this thread, or pretend someone said "This is the best any RPG could ever be" or something absurd like that.

Yes, there isn't much to discuss when you claim people are just leaving the game in meaningful numbers over this issue when all evidence suggests that's not happening and you have zero contrary evidence.

Neat.

People are still leaving the game over it, and complaining about it, regardless, whether or not there is a global survey on the matter, and whether or not it is sufficient to prevent the RPG explosion.

 

[Mistwell]

Neat.

People are still leaving the game over it, and complaining about it, regardless, whether or not there is a global survey on the matter, and whether or not it is sufficient to prevent the RPG explosion.

This is what this conversation looks like from my perspective:

You: The games popularity has decreased over this issue
Me: But the popularity has increased quite a lot, do you have evidence of this claim?
You: Ha, you're arguing it's popular therefore it must be the best it can be and that's false see McDonalds!
Me: What?
You: My argument is right even though I can't prove it.

Maybe we can get back to the spotlight issue, since that's not based on a claim to an objective decrease in players that can't be supported?

 

[Scribe]

Maybe we can get back to the spotlight issue, since that's not based on a claim to an objective decrease in players that can't be supported?

Thats not the claim though, and I'm sure you are aware of that point, but carry on.

 

[Mistwell]

Thats not the claim though, and I'm sure you are aware of that point, but carry on.

I know? That's why I said let's get back to that spotlight issue which is not based on that?

Or are you saying him making a claim to a decrease in the number of players from this issue is not him make a claim to an objective decrease in players? I mean a decrease in number of players can't be subjective, right? It either decreased from the issue or did not.

 

[Scribe]

I know? That's why I said let's get back to that spotlight issue which is not based on that?

Or are you saying him making a claim to a decrease in the number of players from this issue is not him make a claim to an objective decrease in players? I mean a decrease in number of players can't be subjective, right? It either decreased from the issue or did not.

Imagine if you will, a graph of players of 5e.

We go from release to today, and we have 2 lines.

One, is the total players. Objectively we can assume this is a general increase over time, certainly over the period of 'released' to today.
The other is, players who for any number of reasons are dissatisfied with what is on tap, and leave.

Both of these things can be true. There are players leaving over X, and yet the game has increased in player count over time.

 

[Mistwell]

Imagine if you will, a graph of players of 5e.

We go from release to today, and we have 2 lines.

One, is the total players. Objectively we can assume this is a general increase over time, certainly over the period of 'released' to today.
The other is, players who for any number of reasons are dissatisfied with what is on tap, and leave.

Both of these things can be true. There are players leaving over X, and yet the game has increased in player count over time.

Yes. And it's an objective answer and not a subjective one. He's arguing the growth in 5e players was slowed by this issue (some decrease in the number that they would have had but-for this issue). That's an objective statement, not a subjective one.

 

[Shardstone]

And strengths of the classes ARE NOT WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT!

Hahahahaha this convo was a trip to read.

 

[Shardstone]

According to Mistwell, if many people are happy, and many others are unhappy, there is no problem to address except for exile of the unhappy, Change nothing. Innovate never. Join our happiness or leave. So speaks the Higher Mind.