D&D (2024) Does the concept of subspecies of Elves come across as racist to you

[Horwath]

I can still see this being a problem (mostly online) where a player picks a race that is 'mostly' evil or 'sorta' evil and walks into the village. Now, the DM can just be whatever and treat them like another human or dwarf that walked into town or can go and have the villagers get their pitchforks and such to chase the PC from town. Seems a bit like the old thread of not letting a Nazi come to your bar and sit for a drink.

As much as people do not like the Drizzt books, I recall him having a problem getting into town and being accepted. Over time, his fame spread and it led to less shoot first and ask later or another drow being mistaken for him, but it took time. Maybe the new 5e is supposed to take that time and have orcs and goblins and such having already gone through that mistrust and become just another whatever waling into town. Likely what Wizards is going for, but individual tables may vary.

That was the main reason to play Drow or Orc/half-orc in 3.5e.

 

[Alzrius]

That was the main reason to play Drow or Orc/half-orc in 3.5e.

Or a tiefling, I'd wager.

 

[Horwath]

Or a tiefling, I'd wager.

sure, whatever was not "default" and rub the villagers the wrong way.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I want the best of both worlds. This is close to it.

Without an assumption, you cannot play against type. Instead of drizzt, you have “this drow behaves differently than they do in this one colony”

I am not even against repentant fiends…

Creatures having the ability to differ from the majority in behavior is interesting…

There is enough in the books as is to suggest you can differ from the norm. We can do this without fretting over 51 vs. 49 percent of tieflings being naughty. Maybe be more explicit or have a longer discussion in the MM. 70% of DEVIL people being naughty does not offend me.

This seems to make more sense—-you can clearly show degrees of freedom and make the statement that goodness is not biologically determined while still communicating a lot of yuan ti eat people.

This would be far more expedient while not dismantling established lore in favor of milquetoast lore to make things inoffensive.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I like how there's all these attempts to downplay the problem by appealing to the idea there's only 'a few' people harmed by it.

You guys know we're called minorities for a reason. That's why crap like the mark of Ham elves got by in the first place, because the majority was cool with it because they lack the context and experience that makes it a problem for us.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

there are a few assumptions here:

More devil people being naughty = harm to real life minorities.

I reject that as a reasonable conclusion while not being unconcerned with the plight of real people.

The “few” people I am talking about are not minority groups but vocal people online.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I do agree that 'playing against type' can be a fun character to have. I just think that the 'type' should be down to individual settings. Rather than the core books saying that all orcs are 100% evil everywhere in every world without exception.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I do agree that 'playing against type' can be a fun character to have. I just think that the 'type' should be down to individual settings. Rather than the core books saying that all orcs are 100% evil everywhere in every world without exception.

I agree but for a shared book you probably need to suggest “usually or often” unless we are willing to devote a long section per stat block to talk about the different regions.

I actually have have a nation of half orcs that have largely LN society/values. I have not decided how much this influences orcs but that will be a decision for world building too.

 

[Horwath]

I do agree that 'playing against type' can be a fun character to have. I just think that the 'type' should be down to individual settings. Rather than the core books saying that all orcs are 100% evil everywhere in every world without exception.

why not?

Most orcs are evil, unless the specific setting says otherwise, or specific region, or just specific NPC that is well known, so people can believe that is possible for others in theory, but on average they will assume default until proven otherwise.

 

[Micah Sweet]

why not?

Most orcs are evil, unless the specific setting says otherwise, or specific region, or just specific NPC that is well known, so people can believe that is possible for others in theory, but on average they will assume default until proven otherwise.

Additionally, where in the core books does it say that all orcs are 100% evil in all worlds without exception?

Go ahead, look it up. I'll wait.