D&D General Is DnD being mothballed?

[FitzTheRuke]

I don't agree. Simple volume-of-options is enough to hurt new player recruitment, even if they're all perfectly balanced. If we had six to nine "of Everything" books at this point instead of two, I expect that overall D&D player numbers would be much lower now than they are. (Not that I can prove it, of course.)

I agree with you. I guess I was talking about the worst kind of bloat, not the only kind. I absolutely DO think that crunch should be rolled out carefully and slowly, I just think that it's possible that, in this discussion of where WotC might be able to expand, that we could probably have had 2 (or so) more books of crunch in the last 10 years, as long as the stuff was good. Though I wouldn't want ALL of it to be more player-facing options. A lot of it could be DM-facing - like more and better traps and hazards and more optional rules - like the Bastion system, but better designed!

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's not about customers being dense, it's about casual fans not being dialed into the conventions of the game.

Although, yes, people can be dense. The burger issue raised shows that. When dense folks tank a marketing campaign, it isn't that most of the targeted customers are dense, just a meaningful percentage of them.

Anyone who's worked in a customer-facing position should be painfully aware of that.

And the rest of us have to suffer so the lowest common denominator can be served.

 

[darjr]

And the rest of us have to suffer so the lowest common denominator can be served.

You'd rather everyone suffer to satisfy your niche needs?

 

[Micah Sweet]

You'd rather everyone suffer to satisfy your niche needs?

I'd rather different people get different things, according to their needs and interests. I'd love it if complexity wasn't considered a dirty word, and designers trusted their customers with hot things.

 

[Scribe]

I hear ya. I just generally prefer doing hobbies in a chill environment, so I don’t play magic at game store lol

Totally fair, my game store playing days are long in the past for probably similar reasons.

As to this topic.

Has anyone kind of just lifted their head up from "D&D, 5e, Edition Wars, Mundane Fighter" and looked around?

Hit up some Google searches based on books name dropped here or in other threads?
Done some searching on Kickstarter?

Almost 20K backers for Ryokos?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dndshorts/ryokos-guide-to-the-yokai-realms-a-5e-tome

Something called Wander's Guide for I guess shopping and markets?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/eventyrgames/wanderers-guide-to-enchanted-emporiums/description

I dont even look at DM Guild or Drive Through much as I find the UI's hideous and terrible but since I cannot play with my current toy and generate character art, I'm looking around in various places and you know what?

Its overwhelming. There is SO MUCH out there, with professional looking products, that get rave reviews, that I've literally (Wanderers Guide?) never heard of.

Could Wizards release more? Sure they could, obviously just look around for 20 minutes (let me CREATE DALL-E!) and maybe its just me but it gets overwhelming very fast.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

You'd rather everyone suffer to satisfy your niche needs?

I think he would, and I don't mean that as a personal attack - it just is what it is.

Aren't you the guy who once dubbed yourself "as close to an expert on this exact topic as there is in the world"?

Speaking of things that are what they are - I don't think Morrus was being arrogant here. Just telling it like it is. I understand his frustration. Sometimes I feel like I'm blowing my own horn when I try to explain that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to RPG sales and marketing. I'm really REALLY not trying to brag, I'm just trying to point out that I'm not just-another-poster on the subject. That's what Morrus was trying to do there.

 

[Alzrius]

Speaking of things that are what they are - I don't think Morrus was being arrogant here. Just telling it like it is. I understand his frustration. Sometimes I feel like I'm blowing my own horn when I try to explain that I know what I'm talking about when it comes to RPG sales and marketing. I'm really REALLY not trying to brag, I'm just trying to point out that I'm not just-another-poster on the subject. That's what Morrus was trying to do there.

Which is fine; expertise is a real thing, and there's nothing wrong with someone saying they have it (though how they do is another matter). But to declare yourself the foremost expert in the world, and then later make a rather uncharitable remark about someone else acting elitist is...well, not what I'd call a good look.

 

[Iosue]

A note about putative “mothballing.”

D&D was never under any direct threat of being mothballed. Not during 4e or 5e.

When Ryan Dancey first mentioned “mothballing” it was in the context of a worst-case scenario for any Non-Core Brand at Hasbro. It also had a specific meaning. Not a reduced staff. Not a reduced release schedule. Mothballing meant Hasbro taking the product off the shelves for a period of time. This was the fate of toys and games that were no longer viable.

Now, it is true that not being a Core Brand meant that the D&D department could no longer keep the number of their 2005 staff, and thus the annual layoffs. But D&D wasn’t ever taken off the shelves, not even during the 2012-2014 D&DNext playtest. It never stopped making money for WotC and Hasbro.

 

[Morrus]

Aren't you the guy who once dubbed yourself "as close to an expert on this exact topic as there is in the world"?

Bit stalkery.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Which is fine; expertise is a real thing, and there's nothing wrong with someone saying they have it (though how they do is another matter). But to declare yourself the foremost expert in the world, and then later make a rather uncharitable remark about someone else acting elitist is...well, not what I'd call a good look.

Maybe. They're two different situations. I wouldn't characterize Morrus as elitist - far from it. So it seems more likely that you took his (possibly slightly overblown) expertise-post stronger than he meant it. For example, he didn't put himself at the top. Just AMONG the top, which is probably true.