Unpopular opinions go here

[Micah Sweet]

Its the truth, whatever it is.

I also played, and loved, Millennium's End and Riddle of Steel. By gaming life is a Who's Who of niche games.

Riddle of Steel was fun as all get out. You want cool martials? Take a lesson from RoS.

 

[Emberashh]

Riddle of Steel was fun as all get out. You want cool martials? Take a lesson from RoS.

Much as I detest it, I took a lesson from one of Todd Howards more (in)famous quotes in coming up for pitches for my game.

"You see that dragon over there? You can suplex that dragon."

 

[Zardnaar]

Edition warring against 4e or 3.x?
I don't believe anyone is edition warring on the whole rules light talking point but even if they were it would have to be vs 3.x in my opinion.

For me games like D&D could never be considered rules light, not even BECMI. Once you've played a rules light game (and you will know one once you've seen it), D&D will always fall into the rules heavy camp.

3E onwards are rules heavy some OSR or very early OD&D or B/X might be rules medium or light if being generous.

Since there's no objective criteria for rules light or heavy.......

If you need 3 books 200+ pages though it's not rules light.

 

[Lanefan]

Tends to be the rub with a game thats billed as the Do Anything game, and is more often than not, played in precisely that way. Content doesn't actually matter, even when its rules.

If you're calling 5e rules-light, then what does rules-heavy look like to you?

They just tend to also suffer because they don't make that obvious, creating an artificial barrier to learning as people become daunted by the great pile of books to read that they only need to read less than 1% of, if that, to just play.

Not a problem limited to just these games, to be clear. Most, arguably all, TTRPGs have that issue, precisely because they have created this illusion that rules and content are the same thing, when they're not and shouldn't be.

I don't understand this in the slightest.

Where is your divider between what you see as rules and what you see as "content" (whatever that is)?

"A longsword inflicts d8 damage on a hit" is a rule. If you think it isn't a rule, please explain how and why that can be.

 

[overgeeked]

Edition warring against 4e or 3.x?
I don't believe anyone is edition warring on the whole rules light talking point but even if they were it would have to be vs 3.x in my opinion.

For me games like D&D could never be considered rules light, not even BECMI. Once you've played a rules light game (and you will know one once you've seen it), D&D will always fall into the rules heavy camp.

OD&D, Holmes, and B/X are rules light compared to other D&D editions. I’d say they’re medium-light.

 

[Emberashh]

If you're calling 5e rules-light, then what does rules-heavy look like to you?

I already explained that; more than one rule has to actually matter.

"A longsword inflicts d8 damage on a hit" is a rule.

That is content.

If you think it isn't a rule, please explain how and why that can be.

Already explained that. Content isn't a part of the underlying game rules, and it makes intuitive sense actually with the specific example you picked; rolling a die to generate a number isn't much of a game. How that number is used as part of the actual game is, but it does not matter to that game.

Do refer to the Pokemon reference if you're still struggling.

Edit; And Ill reiterate again that focusing too much on ones preconceptions over a vague phrase, and not enough on what Im actually saying, is the wrong way to approach this conversation.

 

[Hussar]

Edition warring against 4e or 3.x?
I don't believe anyone is edition warring on the whole rules light talking point but even if they were it would have to be vs 3.x in my opinion.

For me games like D&D could never be considered rules light, not even BECMI. Once you've played a rules light game (and you will know one once you've seen it), D&D will always fall into the rules heavy camp.

Depends on which one you like. Whichever one someone likes, that is the rules light game. If they do not like it, it cannot be rules light. Same with simulationist. SImulationist, as far as I can tell means a game someone likes. Does not really matter what the game is or how it is written. If they like it, then it is a sim game. Because they like sim games, anything they like must be a sim game. It is a nice tight circle of impenetrable rhetoric that goes nowhere.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Do you have a substantive response?

That was one. I'll explain it to you in detail, if you need me to.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Since there's no objective criteria for rules light or heavy.......

There isn't one you're right about that. And I'm terrible at defining things so I wouldn't want to try, I prefer saying once you play a rules light game you will know.

If you need 3 books 200+ pages though it's not rules light.

That is good metric!

 

[AnotherGuy]

Depends on which one you like. Whichever one someone likes, that is the rules light game. If they do not like it, it cannot be rules light. Same with simulationist. SImulationist, as far as I can tell means a game someone likes. Does not really matter what the game is or how it is written. If they like it, then it is a sim game. Because they like sim games, anything they like must be a sim game. It is a nice tight circle of impenetrable rhetoric that goes nowhere.

I'd find it peculiar to argue 4e is more rules heavy than 3.x
I like both and am frustrated with both for mostly different reasons. As with 5e, we are a difficult lot to please.