D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

None of us are, we are weirdos as far as WotC marketing is concerned. 12-24 year olds are the target, since they are the majority of players, and the space that's growing.
The last session I GMed for 12-24 year olds was In A Wicked Age. They had no trouble picking it up, and enjoyed it.

I don't think the fact that 5e D&D has a million times the market penetration of In A Wicked Age shows that In A Wicked Age is poorly designed.

But for a game, more widely played and enjoyed is better.
This claim is obviously false. Palladium RPGs are more widely played and enjoyed than In A Wicked Age. They are not better games.
 

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No, even by your own explanations, you're wrong. Given how self-evident that is, I'm honestly not sure why you can't see that, but I'll try and walk you through it anyway.

That's not what happens in the fiction (hence the term "healing" in the power's name).

My guess is that you're confused because you just read the blurb on page 61 of the PHB – "Using the healing word power, clerics can grant their comrades additional resilience with nothing more than a short prayer." – and (apparently) stopped there. Now, that certainly sounds like it could be interpreted as having the target character "dig deep into their reserves," but it clashes with the text on the very next page, where the healing word power is presented, and where the italicized text gives the in-character presentation for what healing word does:

You whisper a brief prayer as divine light washes over your target, helping to mend its wounds.

That's not "dig deep into their reserves" by any measure, since it literally describes it as wounds being mended. And yet the target character is the one who spends a healing surge.

This is the best proof of my point that you could ask for, as 4E says that hit point restoration via the very same mechanic is one thing (tapping into a personal reserve to regain combat capability) on one page, and then immediately turns around and says that it's something else (a cleric's using divine power to close wounds) on the next page. That's flat-out inconsistent, and openly portrays the double duty that 4E has hit points doing.


And yet you've amply demonstrated how a single mechanic is being employed, and given the best example yet of 4E's cognitive gap on display. Thanks for that!
So I take it that, when you play AD&D, Cure Light Wounds can't help a badly-wounded character?

Or do you just ignore the flavour text?

4e D&D comes right out and says that the flavour text in power descriptions is epiphenomenal. I certainly don't care about the flavour text for Healing Word. But suppose that you do, then you can treat the power as working just the same as Lay on Hands - the receiving character gives of their own reserves, and the gods heal them in return. That's not incoherent at all.

True, and yet...the game does demand that they be taken as meat in some ways, most notably in the case of poison, and more broadly in damage types.
Gygax dealt with the former in his DMG; he also rejected damage types for the same reason.

Gygax's solution to poison works fine in AD&D, and works fine in 4e D&D: how one narrates hit point loss is sensitive, case-by-case, to the overall consequences on that occasion of the attack.
 


So I take it that, when you play AD&D, Cure Light Wounds can't help a badly-wounded character?

Or do you just ignore the flavour text?
I really don't know what you mean here; of course a cure light wounds can help a badly-wounded character, it restores 1d8 hit points' worth of injuries that the character has taken.

Now, what I think you're saying here (and please feel free to let me know if I'm misunderstanding you) is a tu quoque fallacy about how 4E's cognitive gap caused by its tying multiple in-character processes to a single mechanic is somehow less egregious because, in AD&D, characters gaining more hit points as they level up means that the flat hit points restored by a healing spell results in said spells become less effective as they level up. That's a problem, to be sure, but it doesn't make what 4E does any less egregious in-and-of itself. Which is just part of why so many people didn't care for that edition.
4e D&D comes right out and says that the flavour text in power descriptions is epiphenomenal. I certainly don't care about the flavour text for Healing Word. But suppose that you do, then you can treat the power as working just the same as Lay on Hands - the receiving character gives of their own reserves, and the gods heal them in return. That's not incoherent at all.
Yeah, no. If you're referring to the section on flavor text in the "How to Read a Power" section of the PHB, what it says is:

A power’s flavor text helps you understand what happens when you use a power and how you might describe it when you use it. You can alter this description as you like, to fit your own idea of what your power looks like. Your wizard’s magic missile spell, for example, might create phantasmal skulls that howl through the air to strike your opponent, rather than simple bolts of magical energy.

I suppose your reading might vary, but to me (and, I'd be willing to bet, to most other people), that looks more like changing the cosmetic aspects of the spell, rather than altering the in-character process that's actually being performed. You can say that a cure light wounds spell heals by causing rapid regeneration, rather than a divine light which makes new blood and tissue out of nothing, but to say that it means healing word isn't actually healing anything but is simply making the target creature recover some stamina strikes me as going beyond what the above passage means. The first sentence, in that regard, is the most salient; the flavor text is giving you the in-character understanding of what a power does.

Of course, you absolutely can change things in the context of your home game; the ability to "hack" or otherwise alter parts of the game in a DIY approach has long been one of the major draws of TTRPGs. But that doesn't change that, as it presents itself, 4E is making it very clear how the healing word power functions: in a way that's mechanically identical to the warlord's inspiring word, while being quite different from an in-character standpoint.
 

The last session I GMed for 12-24 year olds was In A Wicked Age. They had no trouble picking it up, and enjoyed it.

I don't think the fact that 5e D&D has a million times the market penetration of In A Wicked Age shows that In A Wicked Age is poorly designed.

This claim is obviously false. Palladium RPGs are more widely played and enjoyed than In A Wicked Age. They are not better games.
I don't see super strong reasons o believe that Palladium games are widely played at all.

And it's not clear to me thst it is false.
 

Sure there is, market research. Which WotC has been engaged in for years.
Engaged in, yes, if dubiously.

We don't know, for example, what sort of tailoring they're doing to the current survey responses e.g. excluding certain age groups, or excluding those who aren't currently playing 5e, or excluding those who spend less than a certain amount on RPGs per year, or whatever. And that tailoring can greatly skew the end-result stats.

We do know they've done such tailoring in the past. For evidence, click on "Features" at the top of your screen. The second option down is the write-up of the research and survey WotC did in the run-up to 3e. Look carefully in that write-up and you'll notice all survey responses from those who self-identified as older than (35?) were ignored. This made a big difference to the results, I think.
 

Engaged in, yes, if dubiously.

We don't know, for example, what sort of tailoring they're doing to the current survey responses e.g. excluding certain age groups, or excluding those who aren't currently playing 5e, or excluding those who spend less than a certain amount on RPGs per year, or whatever. And that tailoring can greatly skew the end-result stats.

We do know they've done such tailoring in the past. For evidence, click on "Features" at the top of your screen. The second option down is the write-up of the research and survey WotC did in the run-up to 3e. Look carefully in that write-up and you'll notice all survey responses from those who self-identified as older than (35?) were ignored. This made a big difference to the results, I think.
Well, we also know that people over 35 playing D&D are a fringe minority of players still, so that makes perfect sense.
 

The last session I GMed for 12-24 year olds was In A Wicked Age. They had no trouble picking it up, and enjoyed it.
In fairness, they did have one thing going for them: a GM (you) who knew the game well, could explain it in terms they could relate with, and could step them through it until they caught on. Not every group has this, and when everyone at the table is new to a game some are easier to pick up than others.

I don't know where Wicked Age falls on that spectrum as I've never seen it.
 



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