D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Monk Discussion

[mellored]

Possibly an oversight.

But "Martial Weapons that have the Light property" includes Hand Crossbow.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It has to be able to completely negate attacks or the damage redirection part of it doesn't work.

It still can and it is even slightly better at level.
In the end, it needs to be balanced as well as useful.

 

[mellored]

If this ability goes to print in its current form, I think it will make Monks by far the strongest duelists in the game.

Not seeing a problem with that at all.

The monk using it's mobility to pick off a single target and duel them down, and avoid being swarmed, sounds like a really good niche.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Level 10 now has a needed buff - when you spend a ki point for Flurry of Blows you get two extra unarmed attacks not just one. (Plus the free one). This is good. I'm slightly concerned about levels 7-9 being soggy and situational in the wake of monk damage being pegged back by getting less use from Extra Attack than people with bigger weapons (Monks being MAD having less chance to use the new good feats) - but this is a huge improvement over the way it was in 2014 when levels 7-13 were all soggy and monk subclasses included the old Four Elements.

Warrior of the Hand looks good.

The monk at level 7 to 9 was never the problem. Stunnig strike used to carry them at those levels. Also their exceptional speed and some subclass abilities. Up to level 11, being behind in stats also was acceptable. At level 8 they actually could afford a respectable 18 AC, a good amount of ki points and enough survivability. So actually I regarded that as the monk's sweet spot.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Not seeing a problem with that at all.

The monk using it's mobility to pick off a single target and duel them down, and avoid being swarmed, sounds like a really good niche.

Also aligns with the way I have only seen people play the monk.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Deflect Attacks is useful for some of the some of the concerns for the Monk's survivability. Also the Temp HP from Heightened Patient Defense helps a bunch too. A Monk would still want a bunch of points in CON, but at least point buy or arrays, they can focus a bit more on DEX and WIS.

I think the monk now can easily afford 16 wis and dex and 12 or 13 in con. If they really are concerned about their hp, they should start with the tough feat.

But they can just outlast most opponents by using dodge and bonus action unarmed strike at level 1 now.

1d6+3 damage, 15 or 16 AC and 9 hp
and disadvantage against you is not the worst you can bring to the table. Oh. And ever ready to grapple or shove with that unarmed strike. Take tavern brawler and do damage on top.

 

[Leatherhead]

Possibly an oversight.

But "Martial Weapons that have the Light property" includes Hand Crossbow.

It's probably not an oversight. There are only three martial weapons with the Light property to begin with, and Shadow Monks are supposed to be ninjas anyway.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I get that giving Dodge for only a Bonus Action would be a bit strong

You can Dodge as main action and attack as bonus action through the early levels...

• Dipping one level into Rogue for Weapon Mastery

I like where a Rogue dip can be really useful for Monk, but it's not required to function. Let's look at the impact of delaying your Monk progress by 1 level (and bold the winner)...

Monk1/Rogue1 vs Monk2 - multi doesn't have Ki abilities (but is a goddamn terror with 3 attacks + sneak attack)
Monk2/Rogue1 vs Monk3 - full has subclass already (and Deflect Attacks omg)
Monk3/Rogue1 vs Monk4 - full gets ASI/feat
Monk4/Rogue1 vs Monk5 - full has Extra Attack (and Stunning Strike)
Monk5/Rogue1 vs Monk6 - full has magical hands

So the Rogue is unquestionably ahead on lv2. At lv6+, when Monk is no longer getting something every level, the Rogue Monk is mostly just losing out on 1 Ki, so this is another time where they are likely better, but by this time, an extra attack (plus 1d6 from sneak attack) isn't as big of a deal.

Expertise is pretty damn tempting, but at least Skill Expertise exists if you want it for just one specific skill.

• Other than Empowered Strike, is there any reason to use Unarmed Attacks for your Attack Action rather than Monk Weapons?

No, so this is just business as usual. I always viewed Monk unarmed attacks as being purely for the bonus action attacks.

 

[mellored]

It's probably not an oversight. There are only three martial weapons with the Light property to begin with, and Shadow Monks are supposed to be ninjas anyway.

IMO, a shortbow would fit the fantasy a lot better than a hand crossbow.

But maybe keeping the fastest guys ranged attack to 30' is appropriate.

 

[Kurotowa]

It's probably not an oversight. There are only three martial weapons with the Light property to begin with, and Shadow Monks are supposed to be ninjas anyway.

True, but let's take a step back. Why would a Monk even want to use a Hand Crossbow? A Sling has the same range, thanks to the Martial Arts Die it does the same damage, and it isn't constrained by the Loading property. Or if you want something that's more on-brand stylistically, mixes well with the Monk focus on Unarmed Strikes, and only has a modestly shorter normal range increment, just wear a bandoleer of Darts.